Postby fede21us » July 31st, 2008, 7:56 pm


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being an avid cyclist for many years, I can tell you that no, you do not want any ankle support. The reason being that on top of the up and down movement of the circular pedal stroke, the foot also moves side to side in a natural pedaling motion, especially when sprinting and hammering out of the saddle, as when you do uphills.

Adding a brace around the ankle would hinder the lateral movement, thus restricting the performance of the cyclist.

Also, if you look at almost every cycling shoe design out there, they all leave the ankle free to move.

Postby jGray » July 31st, 2008, 11:18 pm

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Wow thanks for the response tridesign, and fede21us too.

thats kindof what i thought, but didn't really understand why - thanks!

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Postby jon_winebrenner » July 31st, 2008, 11:44 pm

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This is the part of this forum I LOVE. The day to day banter is amusing. But this kind of dialogue is so cool. I love learning new stuff.

Postby Tridesign » August 1st, 2008, 5:49 am


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fede21us wrote:being an avid cyclist for many years, I can tell you that no, you do not want any ankle support. The reason being that on top of the up and down movement of the circular pedal stroke, the foot also moves side to side in a natural pedaling motion, especially when sprinting and hammering out of the saddle, as when you do uphills.

Adding a brace around the ankle would hinder the lateral movement, thus restricting the performance of the cyclist.


Most of that lateral movement of the foot comes from tibial rotation during the pedal stroke - so the foot would move in the same direction as the lower leg and would not cause rotational friction in the ankle brace. There may be some other ankle related lateral motion due to foot motion in the shoe (i.e. pronation/ supination) but the rigid sole and tight fit try to control this as best as possible. I'm still not saying that an ankle cuff might not have drawbacks, but I think it deserves to be prototyped and tested somewhere out there.

P.S. Some of the cooler (read: more expensive) production shoes out there are made by Simmons Racing (see some pics at the link below)
http://www.simmons-racing.com/Cycling_shoes.html

Postby Tridesign » August 1st, 2008, 8:27 am


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I thought it might help to provide some insight for those who don’t bike at all. All of the entries have been excellent!

In my opinion, the parts of the actual cycling shoe (I’m ignoring the shoe/ cleat interface – that’s a whole other animal) that could still use design improvements include (along with currently available products):

1. Closure system – need to be secure, but not constricting and adjustable while riding the bike.
a. Velcro straps http://www.brandscycle.com/merchant/278 ... nwomr3.jpg
b. Ratcheting systems http://www.wiggle.co.uk/images/sidi-gen ... d-zoom.jpg
c. Wire cables http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/photos/te ... t-shoe.jpg
2. Customization of fit
a. Heat-moldable plastics http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... 6887?img=9
b. Interchangable insoles http://www.primera-bournemouth.co.uk/pr ... 1-4349.jpg
3. Speed and ease of getting the shoe on and off
a. Single strap closures http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4 ... AA280_.jpg

Of course, there are many different types of riders who are interested in different designs.
1. Recreational / Lifestyle wear – want to look cool wearing cycling shoes all day and be able to walk easily in the shoes
2. Road racer: want light, stiff, secure, efficient shoes
3. Triathletes: Want light, secure shoes that can be put on and off very quickly and easily
4. Time trialists: same as road racers, but with a super smooth, aerodynamic covering
5. Mountain bikers: Rugged, with tread. Sometimes need to run in the shoes to get over things.

Postby fede21us » August 2nd, 2008, 2:02 pm


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Thanks Tridesign for explaining the ankle thing with a more scientific approach, I am also learning a lot along the way.

Also, im just pointing out the obvious here, but has everyone noticed the similarities in equipment between inline speed skating and cycling? Both use the same helmets, same eye shades, sometimes the same gloves, lycra suits, etc...

I have trained in both sports, and cyclists cross-discipline with inline speed skating to get stronger and exercise different muscles that usually don't get used in one sport alone. It really improves your cycling performance.

Since both sports focus on rigid and lightweight soles for efficient power transfer (usually carbon fiber) and similar closure systems for the uppers, I think that a great place to research for this challenge would be to look at the other sport's boots:

again: http://www.simmons-racing.com/Boots.html

http://www.bont.com/index.htm , http://www.pinnacleracing.com/index.html ,

http://www.canariam.net/id1.html
Attachments
red-3pt.jpg
Bont Vaypor

Postby tbaker » August 4th, 2008, 6:26 am


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Discussion time?

Favourites:
ADD- completely blew me away with the rendering. If i was the client, i'd whip out my checkbook on the spot.

Fletcha: Another brilliant, sleek and aero looking shoe. Not sure about the CF over the top....

Fan Favorite

Postby Peart » August 4th, 2008, 11:29 am


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tbaker wrote:Discussion time?

Favourites:
ADD- completely blew me away with the rendering. If i was the client, i'd whip out my checkbook on the spot.

Fletcha: Another brilliant, sleek and aero looking shoe. Not sure about the CF over the top....



With tbaker's comments, and the fact that every other show on TV is a judging competition where fans text in their favorite artist, should there be a "Fan Favorite" pick of the litter, via responses?

Re: Fan Favorite

Postby jon_winebrenner » August 4th, 2008, 11:32 am

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Peart wrote:With tbaker's comments, and the fact that every other show on TV is a judging competition where fans text in their favorite artist, should there be a "Fan Favorite" pick of the litter, via responses?


I agree this could be a cool way to go about it. With it being forum based at the moment, I don't see that happening. If we could ever get around to creating a specific website for this gig, that would be a very cool feature.

Postby Tridesign » August 4th, 2008, 1:58 pm


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As a cyclist, I thought ewhewell's design of a customizable shoe that uses epoxy was really intriguing. I don't know how feasible it would really be, but I'd be interested in trying it out. I have seen "custom" shoe insoles that firm up only after you inject a chemical into a small port on the side of the insole that mixes with the gel layer that's already in there. If it fit snug to your individual foot, maybe you wouldn't need so much padding and heavy closure devices.

shoes

Postby Flecha » August 4th, 2008, 4:02 pm


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Thanks tbaker,

For the CF over the top, I was thinking it could be something like the full carbon soccer shoes that Nike came out with recently. Unless it was custom made, it would probably have to have some flex in it to adjust to your foot. Plus I was just having some fun.

As for the ankle brace discussion, cyclists need to have some natural movement in the heel area, especially when standing and rocking back and forth. However, to say that a cyclist doesn't want any ankle support is a bit excessive. Most cycling shoes have a hard plastic cup on the heel to prevent too much lateral movement. You could replace this with a CF cup that is lighter, but allows just as much natural flex for the ankle. It would just depend on how thick you make it.

Re: shoes

Postby tbaker » August 5th, 2008, 3:59 am


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Flecha wrote:Thanks tbaker,

For the CF over the top, I was thinking it could be something like the full carbon soccer shoes that Nike came out with recently. Unless it was custom made, it would probably have to have some flex in it to adjust to your foot. Plus I was just having some fun.


Oh, i got what you were doing - it looks farkin' hot! I'd have to see what these nike boots are like to get the idea. Being a cyclist, my idea of CF is stiff with sharp edges! Not what i want on the top of a shoe...

Postby ADD » August 5th, 2008, 7:11 am

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If i was the client, i'd whip out my checkbook on the spot.


Thanks for awesome comments, tbaker. :D

Postby ewhewell » August 5th, 2008, 10:14 am


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Thanks tridesign. I also cycle, and am jealous of the expensive customizable shoes, I feel that a less expensive low tech version has to be out there.

Postby jon_winebrenner » August 5th, 2008, 1:11 pm

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Congrats fede21us!!! You're the winner of this month's 1HDC!

Image

Bill Cass has added his comments:

To start off there are too many good choices. As a rider and racer with many years under my belt and 10 odd bikes in my basement I can see reasons for all of these. I will have to base my decision on those I can actually see folks spinning down the road in. The most important thing I think about when designing product for an athlete is that it actually works. Styling is important but it needs to work exceptionally well first and foremost. My esthetic decisions start there. If it looks good but there is only a vague reference to function I won’t pick it. That being said here are my choices.

Garmin-Chipotle American team shoe:
I can imagine this shoe, once the closure system and fit are worked out, flying down the roads at the Tour de France. I like the thought of using Flywire technology although the rendering doesn’t really show that. I would try to keep the bulk down and make sure there is enough support at the top of the foot. Good team color possibilities too.

Classic International Bike Shoe:
I could have used this shoe this morning. Perfect for all the fixed gear riders weaving there way through a downtown near you. Simple, Stylish and Functional.
Watch out for those laces. A place to tuck them under a flap or tongue top would be a nice touch.

Padilla Shoe:
Believe it or not, some folks do stop for ice cream or actually need to walk once they get where they are going. This would be a great shoe to have in French Alpes while following the Tour. At some point on your way to find the perfect viewing spot the Gendarmes are going to make you get off your bike and walk. As long as this is a light shoe you can ride 140 kms in you have something, Points off for putting the swoosh on backwards. Leave the swoosh alone. It just isn’t “cheeky” anymore and everyone with a pencil, pencil or mouse thinks it is a new idea. Plus the swoosh police wouldn’t let it fly. (they exist)

Barloworld Cycling Shoe and Crampon:
Made me laugh out loud. I would have moved up on the list if it had mentioned that the fangs only come out once the rider disconnects from his bike or that it had a surfboard like leash that keeps your bike from pinwheeling a km down the mountain. No 25 minute wait for the team car either.

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