Close

WESTERNER OR ASIAN?

Postby art » May 18th, 2006, 2:59 am


art
 
Posts: 2
Joined: May 18th, 2006, 2:00 am
The design community in asia has been developing very fast tru the years. In the philippines, industrial designers are conquering most of asian countries and even middle east countries because of their colonial taste and exposure. In china industrial design is still starting to become a popular profession. Aian designers are good, and cheap and they are starting to get a bigger slice of the design market...is it a threat on westerner designers?

Postby lingmiester » May 18th, 2006, 10:17 pm

User avatar

lingmiester
step three
step three
 
Posts: 174
Joined: June 21st, 2005, 11:22 pm
Location: ASIA minor
I'm sorry, but i think we should not encourage further us vs. them discussions. :)

I've worked with designers from all over the world, both western and asian. Neither are better or worst. Each has his/her strengths and weaknesses. Coming together can make some of the strongests design teams known to man.

Postby moderator » May 18th, 2006, 10:48 pm


moderator
step three
step three
 
Posts: 183
Joined: January 17th, 2006, 2:56 pm
Location: golden
The us v them attitude is definitely boaring by now.

Since a huge amount of design is asian, I have found enjoyment seeing some of the better thoughts make it to market.

In the US you must take high level combinations of great ideas to get to market. Asia has the luxury of seeing what sticks and what doesn't. Seven poor designs will sell out just as quickly as seven good ones. Where else are the products going to get manufactured?

If I was designing in asia for the US market, I would design several " B grade products" and then whallop the market with an "A+" strictly from sales data.

In the US it is too risky. You need an "A+++++" every time. there is no room for a B.
Good design does not have borders

Postby WONG_HK » July 1st, 2006, 10:16 am


WONG_HK
 
Posts: 8
Joined: May 29th, 2006, 9:28 pm
Im currently a designer in HK and educated overseas, i think western designers will have difficulty in the next 5- 10 years due to the chinese students opting to study overseas.These students will learn the "western" design theory/ methodology and bring them back to the mainland (asia). Already i have seen secondary year students 100% fluent in CAD software such as PRO-E, Alias, Solidworks etc.....they already have the knowledge in software, and within the next 5-10 years their design skills will improve and get better. As China open more doors to manufacturing, chinese overseas educated designers will work for less as westerners will not (expat package,as are very limited nowadays), they can communicate in manderin and english (as the average factory worker only understands manderin) and the need for a western designer will be limited.

I think in the next few years western designers will seriously have to watch out.

Postby MasterBlaster » July 1st, 2006, 11:14 am

User avatar

MasterBlaster
step four
step four
 
Posts: 588
Joined: January 6th, 2004, 9:51 pm
uuuugh...boring topic

Postby csven » July 1st, 2006, 1:43 pm


csven
step four
step four
 
Posts: 432
Joined: June 25th, 2004, 11:41 am
"Aian designers are good, and cheap"

And what is this comment based upon?

Pricing is leveling. There are Asian firms that submit higher bids than I do now, and I live on the U.S. East Coast.

So much for "cheap".

The advantage they now (supposedly) have is that they understand manufacturing better than Western designers. Perhaps. But my experience is that the IDers in China, for example, are sensitive to the manufacturing constraints of their company. That's different than understanding manufacturing and offering options that sometimes are outside the realm of a particular company's expertise.

So much for "good" (by my definition).

Also, there seems to be less cross-industry movement in China (and maybe Asia in general); that's just my perception and what I've been told by some Chinese design acquaintainces. A lack of cross-industry experience leads to a kind of inbreeding of ideas and processes. However, I am starting to notice the same thing here in the U.S., so it's a bigger problem maybe affecting the entire industry. Worse but maybe getting better in Asia; better but getting worse in the U.S.

One question that often comes up is whether Asian (and by that I'm talking now about Chinese since there are going to be so many in the near future) designers can be as creative as their Western counterparts. I tend to side with those who say that the culture is not currently conducive to fostering creativity in the same way as in the West (and among those who say this are Chinese designers). There are certainly creative designers in Asia. But will they have the same percentage of creatives? Not now, imo. I think it will change, but that takes more than 5 or 10 years. Easy enough to train people on software. Or how to sketch variation #117 of the same product. Not so easy to rewire a lifetime's worth of cultural inhibitions and have a junior designer tell his boss that the design direction being handed down is outdated; or the solution is overly derivative. First the culture has to recognize the value (which it seems to be doing) and second a new kind of person has to come who can then be trained to be much more individualistic and, to some degree, confrontational. I give it another 20 years.

The problem with that timeline is that Design in general is becoming a commodity. In 20 years the field will be dead anyway imo... fragmented into two general occupations: one corporate and designing giveaway product (like cell phones) tied to services (cell phone service), the other independent and designing/selling their own products on sites like Etsy and eBay (which is where you'll find me).

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. Either way, I'm not feeling threatened. I'm happy to compete with anyone. Forget the software (which I know) or the concept art (which I can generate), I'll gladly compete in the arena of ideas, which is where the Design I care about is moving. The "me too" stuff is commodity junk and whoever winds up doing it will watch their salary erode where ever they live.

Postby SK » July 2nd, 2006, 7:12 am

User avatar

SK
step three
step three
 
Posts: 140
Joined: February 14th, 2005, 5:37 am
Location: Adelaide
Already i have seen secondary year students 100% fluent in CAD software such as PRO-E, Alias, Solidworks etc.....they already have the knowledge in software


It is very common in Asia, to mistake CAD skills for Design skills and ability to reproduce for ability to create.

Postby ufo » July 2nd, 2006, 1:18 pm

User avatar

ufo
full self-realization
full self-realization
 
Posts: 996
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 3:45 am
Location: global
from this heavenly turmoil the hand of play had to share
came out a single soul hanging to a strand of hair
good fortune took upon his destiny through patience and will
no, nothing be existing comes from existance direct on the hill



written by a famous seljuqid king: toqrol
source: tarikh ul vozara



‘tand up and spill some cool water in the golden cup
‘fore my skull turns into a bowl of dust and die

At last isn’t it my place, the land of silenced
now instead you shout in the echoing dome of the sky

eyes of unclear vision miles away from the truth
look at her like you look at a clean mirror lie

I swear to green tip of your blade if I fall old pine
You put aside claim and give me shade one try

My long winding effort couldn’t escape medusa’s head
Just some antidote opium on those sweet lips I buy

You know the ground in this farm may as well slide
And the heat you brought from the east might fry!

I got baptized in my own tears said my priest
First get pure then watch the pure cry

Oh goodness remember the picky angel who lied
Let his sorry smoke blow upon reaching his own lie

Like the foliage of a flower cover yourself until again
Arrives your day then lay it down don’t ask why

source: hafez
Last edited by ufo on July 6th, 2006, 8:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2FAST4 BMW

Chris Bangle, Director of BMW Group Design, BMW AG:
"A great airplane designer once said 'pretty planes fly faster.' And then came the Stealth, proving the paradigm wrong."

Postby edmund_180779 » July 3rd, 2006, 4:48 am

User avatar

edmund_180779
step one
step one
 
Posts: 28
Joined: March 10th, 2005, 8:42 pm
Location: Little S
alrite, go blondes! woo hoo!!!


csven wrote:"Aian designers are good, and cheap"

And what is this comment based upon?

Pricing is leveling. There are Asian firms that submit higher bids than I do now, and I live on the U.S. East Coast.

So much for "cheap".

The advantage they now (supposedly) have is that they understand manufacturing better than Western designers. Perhaps. But my experience is that the IDers in China, for example, are sensitive to the manufacturing constraints of their company. That's different than understanding manufacturing and offering options that sometimes are outside the realm of a particular company's expertise.

So much for "good" (by my definition).

Also, there seems to be less cross-industry movement in China (and maybe Asia in general); that's just my perception and what I've been told by some Chinese design acquaintainces. A lack of cross-industry experience leads to a kind of inbreeding of ideas and processes. However, I am starting to notice the same thing here in the U.S., so it's a bigger problem maybe affecting the entire industry. Worse but maybe getting better in Asia; better but getting worse in the U.S.

One question that often comes up is whether Asian (and by that I'm talking now about Chinese since there are going to be so many in the near future) designers can be as creative as their Western counterparts. I tend to side with those who say that the culture is not currently conducive to fostering creativity in the same way as in the West (and among those who say this are Chinese designers). There are certainly creative designers in Asia. But will they have the same percentage of creatives? Not now, imo. I think it will change, but that takes more than 5 or 10 years. Easy enough to train people on software. Or how to sketch variation #117 of the same product. Not so easy to rewire a lifetime's worth of cultural inhibitions and have a junior designer tell his boss that the design direction being handed down is outdated; or the solution is overly derivative. First the culture has to recognize the value (which it seems to be doing) and second a new kind of person has to come who can then be trained to be much more individualistic and, to some degree, confrontational. I give it another 20 years.

The problem with that timeline is that Design in general is becoming a commodity. In 20 years the field will be dead anyway imo... fragmented into two general occupations: one corporate and designing giveaway product (like cell phones) tied to services (cell phone service), the other independent and designing/selling their own products on sites like Etsy and eBay (which is where you'll find me).

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. Either way, I'm not feeling threatened. I'm happy to compete with anyone. Forget the software (which I know) or the concept art (which I can generate), I'll gladly compete in the arena of ideas, which is where the Design I care about is moving. The "me too" stuff is commodity junk and whoever winds up doing it will watch their salary erode where ever they live.

Postby csven » July 3rd, 2006, 8:19 am


csven
step four
step four
 
Posts: 432
Joined: June 25th, 2004, 11:41 am
edmund_180779 wrote:alrite, go blondes! woo hoo!!!


Don't mistake that for an endorsement. Asian designers are getting better... fast. I don't see designers in the U.S. getting any better. If anything, they seem rather clueless about what's happening around them. And more are seemingly coming out of technical schools than institutions. That's a bad sign. People don't learn to really think the same way at a tech school.

Also, sociologists point to the current generation of U.S. college grads as being very conforming. Supposedly they're more into groupthink. That's no different than what is being called out as a detriment to creativity in Asian cultures.

Personally, I think the ID superstars will come out of some of the formerly Eastern bloc countries and the Balkans. Places like Bulgaria. Hardly blonde.

Postby MasterBlaster » July 3rd, 2006, 7:06 pm

User avatar

MasterBlaster
step four
step four
 
Posts: 588
Joined: January 6th, 2004, 9:51 pm
hardly blonde either. You are more likely to find diversity in the West than in Asia. I live in a small town in the US but you can still find Koreans, Chinese and Indians. It would take you days to find a handful of foreigners in PRC or India. Just an observation


Return to design in asia