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CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 7th, 2010, 2:29 pm


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Hey all,

I currently am able to work well in Rhino 4 but the Toy Company that I work at does not do any of it's design in 3d. I currently work on a lot of internal toy concepts and mechanical drawings in 2d using sketching and the adobe suite. I would really like to push twords getting Rhino at the company but I would mostly like to get some input from some other Toy Desigers on whether Rhino is a good idea that will improve our process in some way. My feeling is that working on cocepts in 3d will speed our process up and also aid in getting a all around better product because you can get a better feel of the product when built in 3d vs. 2d orthogonal drawings.

Is it standard to use 3d programs as a product/industrial designer in the Toy Industry? If so, I need some help with my argument to spend money on some programs in a penny pinching time. Or I need help realizing that 3d won't help me as much as I think.
B Pov

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby Cyberdemon » October 7th, 2010, 3:17 pm

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The simple logic would be this:

When you hand off your 2D drawings, who do you give them to? An internal engineer? An outside manufacturer?

How much time and money is spent at the next phase, where the 2D is converted to 3D for tooling. Not sure what specifically you make or how it's manufactured, but chances are if it's made of plastic eventually it's going to need to be built in 3D.

How many design iterations have to go back and forth between you and the person on the other side of that wall?

Within our organization, bringing 3D to within the ID group shortened the product development cycle by months. There was no more back and forth with engineers of "this curve isn't curvy enough" or "this transition should look more like this". By taking ownership of the 3D and handing off good clean solid models that were usable by the engineers (able to be shelled, drafted, etc) it was a major revolution in the way we do work, the quality of the product that was delivered, and the power held by the ID organization.

With that said it requires that the ID team be willing to own and deliver on all that additional work. In some ways the 2D handoff is "Easier"

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 7th, 2010, 3:30 pm


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We give the 2d ortho drawings directly to the manufacturer and have them engineer it. We do waste alot of time going back and fourth and after all the back and fourth it is not satisfaction that ends the process, it's usually the deadline that dictates whether our changes are doable or not. It was my feeling that 3d would shorten that time. Thanks for the input.

In what instance would you say a 2d drawing would work better than a 3d model?
B Pov

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby optimistic » October 8th, 2010, 7:54 am

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In my opinion, buying a seat of Rhino is well worth the cost. Considering that you can get it for less than $900 at online retailers, it will pay for itself very quickly in the time you save. Even with 2D drawings, there is a ton of interpretation when it gets to modeling it in 3D. With a 3D model, you are communicating your design intent MUCH more clearly, and that's what it's all about.

I work for a major toy company and use Rhino every day. I've used it to create countless models for building prototypes and for getting to engineers for communicating design intent. There is no other package out there that is as cost effective.

That said, if you had super-deep pockets, Solidworks is better for production stuff since the engineering can be done in the same package. With Rhino, my models always wind up being re-created in SW when it comes time for engineering. But they are both completely different kinds of programs, so you just need to figure out what suits your budget and work style the best.
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Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 8th, 2010, 8:43 am


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Thanks for the help and info. This gives me a little more amunition when I aproach my boss about getting some programs.

Another question, what is the best setup for Rhino? I currently am familiar and use Maxwell as my render but I'm wondering what the dream setup is for add ons, plug ins etc.
B Pov

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby Cyberdemon » October 8th, 2010, 8:49 am

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One thing that is important to consider: Rhino may be more flexible but if you use it to create geometry that your engineers can't use (surfaces with a lot of gaps that can't be repaired), it may still cause issues in the process. It may be more worth considering Solidworks for this reason.

The only reason I said "2D is easier" is because it puts more work on the engineer then it does the designer. If you need to bang out concepts rapidly then that may be faster for you even if it's less efficient for someone else.

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 8th, 2010, 8:57 am


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That makes sense. I've never used Solidworks. I've wanted to jump in a Solidworks class at the two year college down the street but haven't saved enough cash yet. Does Solidworks have a big learning curve?
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Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby Cyberdemon » October 8th, 2010, 9:03 am

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IMO Solidworks is probably the easiest Solids package to pick up. It's got a good UI and a lot of good resources out there for it. Plus it's surfacing capabilities have really developed if you look at some of the work people are doing.

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby NURB » October 8th, 2010, 10:05 am

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bpovich wrote:That makes sense. I've never used Solidworks. I've wanted to jump in a Solidworks class at the two year college down the street but haven't saved enough cash yet. Does Solidworks have a big learning curve?


I'll second that SW can make life easier in the end. To some extent it won't allow you to make some of the "impossible" geometry you can create in Rhino. But, at the same time it will allow you to make impossible to manufacture pieces, too. Like anything, it takes practice to learn the "right" and "wrong" way to create something in terms of your efficiency at modeling parts.

However, if you pass off 3D Rhino models, your engineering staff will have an easier time understanding what you're trying to pull off, IMO.
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Those who define design as knowing how to use Illustrator will be condemned to using Illustrator their entire career. - @monteiro

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 8th, 2010, 10:28 am


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Nice! I think at this point I might just lean twords Rhino cuz it's a easier sell. It's cheaper and I know how to use it. Maybe Solidworks later (after I take some classes). I fear them buying it for me and then me trying to explain why I suck so bad at it to start. LOL. I know there's a learning curve but our deadlines makes everybody here intense.

Does anybody have a really good setup of Rhino and extras that work real good (render/add ons/plug ins ect)? I work with a Maxwell renderer but I'm wondering if something might work better or improve my productivity. I would like to get my management a exact list of programs and pricing estimates when I meet with them. Any input would be much apreciated.
B Pov

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby NURB » October 8th, 2010, 10:38 am

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bpovich wrote:Nice! I think at this point I might just lean twords Rhino cuz it's a easier sell. It's cheaper and I know how to use it. Maybe Solidworks later (after I take some classes). I fear them buying it for me and then me trying to explain why I suck so bad at it to start. LOL. I know there's a learning curve but our deadlines makes everybody here intense.
.

Get a local reseller to quote you a package price with 1 seat, annual maintenance (upgrades and tech support), and training courses. That's how I learned SW...
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Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 8th, 2010, 10:39 am


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1 ohh I didn't even think of that.
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Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby Cyberdemon » October 8th, 2010, 10:56 am

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bpovich wrote:Nice! I think at this point I might just lean twords Rhino cuz it's a easier sell. It's cheaper and I know how to use it. Maybe Solidworks later (after I take some classes). I fear them buying it for me and then me trying to explain why I suck so bad at it to start. LOL. I know there's a learning curve but our deadlines makes everybody here intense.

Does anybody have a really good setup of Rhino and extras that work real good (render/add ons/plug ins ect)? I work with a Maxwell renderer but I'm wondering if something might work better or improve my productivity. I would like to get my management a exact list of programs and pricing estimates when I meet with them. Any input would be much apreciated.


What are your goals for renderings? Do you need hyper photorealism and can you wait hours for a render? If so Maxwell, Vray, or possibly Modo are all good options. I personally prefer Autodesk Showcase since it is a realtime GPU render and it takes me about 15 minutes to go from a 3D model to a final visual that I can ship out to the marketing guy, engineering team, customer etc. It won't be photorealistic but it gets 90% of the way there in 10% of the time which is hugely valuable to me. The hypershot spinoffs (Keyshot and Bunkspeed Shot) are also worth looking at.

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby bpovich » October 8th, 2010, 11:04 am


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I'm looking to do get quick renders to get the ball rolling but also have the capability to do long renders that look great for presentations and also be able to get great product shots images so we can get packaging rolling before we get final product.
B Pov

Re: CAD program in Toy Design

Postby mike_dnhm » October 13th, 2010, 7:56 pm

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I can attest that the new bunkspeed shot is fantastic. Soo easy to use and bang out awesome renders. Cheap too. Have a try. They have a 30 day trial on the website.
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