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Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Variant » September 12th, 2017, 9:29 am

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Everything is web design or UX/UI. :roll:

Does no one talk about/want actual design anymore? Product design and development are utterly dead at this point, I guess.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby iab » September 12th, 2017, 10:54 am


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Incorrect.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Variant » September 12th, 2017, 11:16 am

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iab wrote:Incorrect.


M'kay. Try a search for "getting a job in design". Enjoy wading through the shit.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby masood1224 » September 12th, 2017, 11:46 am

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Variant, I'm sorry you've reached a barrier. Welcome to your first design problem. We've all been there.

Lesson 1. Ask the right question for YOUR answer. "getting a job in design". There are several ambiguities to that question to begin with. What is design to YOU? I'm not going to answer that for you. "getting" do you mean, internship, entry level, fellowship, etc. "job" what is your level of compensation; experience, salary, hourly, barter, etc. Spend a few moments and craft several questions that will provide more insights into what you're seeking. Trust me, once you get that "design job" you'll have to deal with clients asking weird and ambiguous questions, constantly. It's up to you to sort, filter, restate and direct the response. God speed to a more beautiful question.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby iab » September 12th, 2017, 11:59 am


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Variant wrote:M'kay. Try a search for "getting a job in design". Enjoy wading through the shit.


You try a search for "self-fulling prophecy". Enjoy getting a clue.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Cyberdemon » September 12th, 2017, 12:02 pm

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I thought based on the last thread you were getting out of it completely?

UI/UX work is far more available because 1: Virtually every company has some type of digital presence. 2: We're surrounded by a lot of screens.

Doesn't mean ID work is gone. All of my ID friends are still gainfully employed, Coroflot has ~100 jobs listed (I remember trying to get hired during the 2007 recession when there were maybe 15 job postings nationwide).

The recipe hasn't changed. Have a good portfolio, be willing to move, and network as much as possible. The IDSA national conference was just last month.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby yo » September 12th, 2017, 12:28 pm

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I started my own ID consulting studio this year. After fretting about it for years and making a business plan, I took the leap in April. I've already got two contractors working for me regularly and a back log of projects into the new year in branding, design strategy, design language systems and traditional ID.

I'm saying this as a point of reference. Physical design is not dead. I feel for you, and it sucks that you are in your current situation. Assessing the field incorrectly isn't going to help. There is work out there. I know it is hard to make an honest assessment of why you aren't getting work. If there is someone you trust who can give it to you straight (and if you have the ability to hear that), I think that would be helpful.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Variant » September 12th, 2017, 12:29 pm

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Cyberdemon wrote:I thought based on the last thread you were getting out of it completely?

UI/UX work is far more available because 1: Virtually every company has some type of digital presence. 2: We're surrounded by a lot of screens.

Doesn't mean ID work is gone. All of my ID friends are still gainfully employed, Coroflot has ~100 jobs listed (I remember trying to get hired during the 2007 recession when there were maybe 15 job postings nationwide).

The recipe hasn't changed. Have a good portfolio, be willing to move, and network as much as possible. The IDSA national conference was just last month.


I'm not interested in design in particular, but I'd still like to work in product development... if you will. My last role was really as a product development coordinator (with R&D and ID as some of my job duties as the company was small). There ain't shit out there so far as advice goes.

What does the IDSA do for me? I remember working with them in PDX, super nice people, but nobody knew shit about job openings. It was all Art Center academics... and they were utter jerks when I tried to contact them here in Phoenix (feel free to defend yourself PHX IDSA if you even bother with Core77), and they don't even meet. Completely useless. Not that I want to work here. Florida was my target, but god hates it at the moment and isn't done wrecking the place, so I guess I'll wait. :?
Last edited by Variant on September 12th, 2017, 12:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Variant » September 12th, 2017, 12:36 pm

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yo wrote:I started my own ID consulting studio this year. After fretting about it for years and making a business plan, I took the leap in April. I've already got two contractors working for me regularly and a back log of projects into the new year in branding, design strategy, design language systems and traditional ID.

I'm saying this as a point of reference. Physical design is not dead. I feel for you, and it sucks that you are in your current situation. Assessing the field incorrectly isn't going to help. There is work out there. I know it is hard to make an honest assessment of why you aren't getting work. If there is someone you trust who can give it to you straight (and if you have the ability to hear that), I think that would be helpful.


I wouldn't mind freelancing... at all... IF there was work. My previous clients have been happy with me, but word of mouth has never made things happen, IME. Networking either. People just don't know anyone looking for anything. I think I'd be good at consulting on the product dev end of things (not so much ID as I don't see the value in doing it myself anymore). It doesn't help that this town (Phoenix) sucks for this type of thing and I'm literally broke again and can't afford to move. It'd be a crapshoot, anyway.

At the end of the day, you end up just looking for jobs because contract work is so scarce... :(

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Variant » September 12th, 2017, 12:49 pm

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iab wrote:
Variant wrote:M'kay. Try a search for "getting a job in design". Enjoy wading through the shit.


You try a search for "self-fulling prophecy". Enjoy getting a clue.


I'll do that, thanks.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby KenoLeon » September 12th, 2017, 2:21 pm

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- It seems you have a very pessimistic outlook and attitutde which for all I know is completely justified.Venting here or in other ways might feel good in the short term, but it might also be turning away potential clients, jobs, mudding your perspective and feeding a bad loop, it also does very little to change your situation, does this make sense ?

- UI/UX/Web Development is a competitive field right now, I have more than a decade in building web pages /UI-UX and have a decent reputation/portfolio etc,etc, which took years to build and a lot of effort, yet I still struggle getting clients and interviews like most of my peers, hiring in general I think is broken, but then again if I had a cushy job or plenty of ID work I would say it works perfectly and the Industry is fine, so I don't think it is as clear cut as following X or Y persons advice. We all have different starting places, situations and realities we need to adapt to and overcome, our particular experiences also colors our views.

- Look, I think this is lost on many struggling designers including at times myself, your life can be a design problem, by that I mean that if you frame it as a design problem things become much clearer and solutions and insights might come out of the process.

For instance, I just moved to a place where I sense there is little product design culture, it is badly paid, few jobs, it's hard to network and on an on,( I love design and want to make a living doing as much of it as possible, that is my initial perceived problem) , first of all I doubt myself on my initial assessment, it could be a weird year, I could be unlucky, whats the data ?, I could be happier not doing design, etc,etc. But regardless this is my reality, these are the hard limits of my problem which for now becomes how can I do as much design as possible when there are no design jobs ?, when I can't seem to put money into my bank account through design activities ? It might still not be the right problem, but I can start trying out various prototypes for the solution, I could fund my design activities by doing part time work in other fields or finding a patron, I could fill my design needs by applying design techniques like sketching and prototyping to other things, I could take a break from design and see how that feels, and on and on, then I try each prototype or idea for a little while, a few weeks or months maybe and then I tally them up and repeat the process, this is what I am doing as we speak.

-Finally, I don't know you and it is hard reading people through the internet , but I feel that you are full of pride in your work, have a ton of experience in diverse fields and also has a supporting family/friends, these things I think are all strengths you have ( you might have a ton more) and you can use them to get unstuck.

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Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby cwatkinson » September 12th, 2017, 3:14 pm

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If you would like, i would be happy to set up a phone conversation with you and discuss this situation to perhaps help provide guidance,direction, different POV.

Let me know


chevisw@hotmail.com

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby AndyMc » September 12th, 2017, 10:18 pm

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You've posted a bunch of threads on here over the past couple of months/years about:
1) No full-time jobs replying to you
2) No freelance jobs replying to you
3) Your location not being good for NPD
4) Your 15-20 years of experience not being enough to get a job
5) Happy clients not being enough to get a job

You've been given lots of advice, most of which you still haven't done (i.e. post a portfolio for review). It's a competitive industry, and I understand completely the frustration of being rejected from application after application, but why the hell would I hire you when you post comments like below (taken from the 10 yr folio thread). If you hate the basics how can I trust you to handle the 'holistic' part of the role.

Variant wrote:Despite happy clients, the ID crowd told me mine was fucking trash so I took it down. I'm kinda punk rock and don't follow the cultist rules of portfolios, but it's art to me, and ID to me was always 50% creativity / 50% science. It's my process. Fuck creatives for working intuitively, right? Burn every album that was made by anyone who didn't bother to learn to read music. Yeah. :lol:

So honestly, I strictly market myself as a product development coordinator / manager these days. Use the left brain angle. 8)

I just hate the busy work of sketching (I don't sketch ever, TBH, fuck you all), CAD, rendering, etc. anyway, unless it's a personal project.
I'd rather make things happen from the holistic level these days... balance all the nuances of a project with marketing, trade, manufacturing, R&D, engineering, etc. It's a happier place for me.


As said above, the get hired recipe hasn't really changed, and the parts of your post above that I've made bold are perhaps hurting your chances.

From my 2 second google, and I don't live in the USA so my search might come up differently to yours, I have a list of design places you could at least call to network with in Arizona:
http://www.idsa.org/communities/chapter ... in/arizona

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby iab » September 13th, 2017, 8:06 am


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Variant wrote:I'll do that, thanks.


Sorry, that ship has obviously sailed.

Do you want to pile on some more?

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby cwatkinson » September 13th, 2017, 9:12 am

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I didn't recall OP's previous comments. in all honesty its great that he accepts who he is and will not conform, but then accept that that limits your options and move on.

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