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iab
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Variant wrote: get hired on just because you know some software and can make pretty renderings.


Variant wrote:plus all the ancillary R&D work


Do you even realize that these two statements are entirely incongruous?

ID is a small part of the NPD process. And as a hiring manager if I had a 40-year-old thinking that all you have to do, or even all you want to do, is make pretty renderings, I would pass on your resume. You don't get it. Why would I want you?

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Variant
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iab wrote:
Variant wrote: get hired on just because you know some software and can make pretty renderings.


Variant wrote:plus all the ancillary R&D work


Do you even realize that these two statements are entirely incongruous?

ID is a small part of the NPD process. And as a hiring manager if I had a 40-year-old thinking that all you have to do, or even all you want to do, is make pretty renderings, I would pass on your resume. You don't get it. Why would I want you?


I never said that's all I've done. It's all headhunters and HR look for (if they even look at your portfolio). My resume is a litany of diverse job duties. I've built test equipment, managed manufacturing schedules, designed packaging, conducted focus group studies, created trade plans, conceptualized a database for workflows, worked with engineers in China, engineered force systems for bikes, designed guitars for manufacturers and players. I could go on and on. It doesn't help getting interviews, though. Again, I haven't been worth a phone call conversation with a hiring manager or headhunter in over a year.
Last edited by Variant on May 30th, 2017, 10:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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LeggoMyEggo wrote:Sorry to hear about your circumstances, I can imagine it is really tough and discouraging what you are going through, but you should re-read your posts. People have made some sound suggestions and you just keep calling yourself a "piece of shit". As others have suggested, post your portfolio so it can be critiqued, be open to moving to new areas (instead of focusing on the "gentrified cities") and most certainly focus on building your current/new skillset, it might very well pay off, or maybe it won't, but that is the risk you have to take right now.


I'm a piece of shit to the job market. That's an empirical fact. I personally think I'm smart guy, with a diverse resume, a good work ethic, an enthusiasm for learning new things, a curiosity for the market and users, and a love for collaboration and working with others. Don't mix the two up. :D


There must be something in your resume that is turning away employers if you haven't gotten a single hit, if you haven't already, have someone look over it and do the same with your portfolio. Seriously, if you want to get yourself out of this rut, you'll do this.


In the past, I've had my resume looked at a number of times and gotten good feedback. I could have it looked at again, I suppose. I don't know what else to say about myself to make me more appealing. I'm done with the portfolio as like I said, I'm done with design. Employers were always happy with my work. Products made it to market. There's patents and IP there. I'm done trying to prove myself at this point. I want to do something different.


I highly encourage you not to throw in the towel yet, but if you decide to, look at community college programs that have an easy-to-get degree in: IT, medical fields a lot of industries out there take minimal or no training to get your foot in the door, but that should be your last option.


This actually might be the first place for me and not the last. I love to cook, for instance. I might start looking into ways into getting into that somewhere (it's so hard to apply to stuff out of state, though). I'm seriously not married to the tech stuff if my knowledge and experience isn't worth anything.

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Variant: I worry about getting in the same boat as you. I went for diversity over specialization in my career. So far, it's worked out OK, but I worry about looking for a job again. When I do talk to people now, so many people are hiring a rendering specialist, or a CAD specialist or a research specialist. I kinda know all 3. Not as many people are looking for that.

On the other hand, I've always been hired at small companies that required me to do multiple disciplines. Maybe that could be a route for you to get back into design (if so desired). Find a startup that is low on cash, but high on ambition. However, it will probably require you to delay a big pay day. On the other hand, you could be in a position to have control over your life & a pay day in 2-3 years.
Ray Jepson

"The key to success in this business is to find a boss who doesn't care." - Mike Rowe

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Cyberdemon
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Since you want out, theres no reason to try and convince you to stay.

If you like to cook, find a hipster city that has food truck permits, design your own artisanal pretzel truck and use your design skills to form your own business. Then at the end of the day the only person accountable is the guy in the mirror, and any joy or misery you get out of the work will be wholly your own. That's the American dream as much as the C-Suite.


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Honestly, I don't know how to find an optimistic perspective on things. :|


You could try reading "The Magic of Thinking Big" by David J. Schwartz. Found it to be a very inspiring and uplifting book. There's actually a section called "How to make your mind produce positive thoughts." Highly recommend it to anyone.

Not sure if this is what you're feeling, but I've experienced the downward spiral of getting bad results (also while living in a place I didn't like), getting even more frustrated or negative, and then those negative thoughts just bringing more bad results, to get more frustrated about. It can be a downward spiral that needs to be broken somehow.

Reading this type of material and being around other uplifting people helps to break out of that cycle and see opportunities. Opportunities are always there, but a mind clouded by frustration can rarely see them.

Would be great to hear you've found great work that you enjoy in a place you're happy to live. I'm working on this as well - same age, looking to relocate (again), and possibly shifting careers slightly. Let's make it happen :wink:
Last edited by MattyK on June 16th, 2017, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Could the OP, or anyone like him, just move to the city he wants to live in, even if there is not much design work there, and farm himself out to companies doing his kind of work in other parts of the country?

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yo
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of course, you can do whatever you want, the question is will a person be successful and that is all on an individual basis... but that is very possible.

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Variant
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Mr-914 wrote:Variant: I worry about getting in the same boat as you. I went for diversity over specialization in my career. So far, it's worked out OK, but I worry about looking for a job again. When I do talk to people now, so many people are hiring a rendering specialist, or a CAD specialist or a research specialist. I kinda know all 3. Not as many people are looking for that.


Yup. You sound a lot like me, Mr-914. In the end it becomes frustratingly impossible to leverage your background into anything. Trying to convey that frustration is equally frustrating. "You're responsible for your own destiny." Thanks there, Tony Robbins. :roll: Not getting pingbacks on $15/hr. CAD jobs pretty much tells me I fucked up bigtime somewhere: Taking on too many responsibilities, having to learn a number of devotions, trying to move up the ladder to more responsible positions, or whatever. I never wanted to be a "generalist" or whatever and viewed as being half-assed at everything, but more a technical director or VP of product development type or the like. I never got there, though, and it seems all those positions are filled via the buddy system anyway.

On the other hand, I've always been hired at small companies that required me to do multiple disciplines. Maybe that could be a route for you to get back into design (if so desired). Find a startup that is low on cash, but high on ambition. However, it will probably require you to delay a big pay day. On the other hand, you could be in a position to have control over your life & a pay day in 2-3 years.


That would be be nice, and has been the status quo of most of my previous gigs, but I don't feel like going back is an option. No one wants to touch me in my current state. It takes soooooooooooo long for a unicorn hunter to find you (or you to find them) between gigs and you end up unemployed for years on end, decimating your savings in the process. Like I said, that was fine in my twenties, but I'm forty and the cliché stands: I'm too old for this shit. It's not healthy to be stressed out about finding work all the time. It's gonna kill me one way or another.
Last edited by Variant on June 22nd, 2017, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MattyK wrote:
Honestly, I don't know how to find an optimistic perspective on things. :|


You could try reading "The Magic of Thinking Big" by David J. Schwartz. Found it to be a very inspiring and uplifting book. There's actually a section called "How to make your mind produce positive thoughts." Highly recommend it to anyone.

Not sure if this is what you're feeling, but I've experienced the downward spiral of getting bad results (also while living in a place I didn't like), getting even more frustrated or negative, and then those negative thoughts just bringing more bad results, to get more frustrated about. It can be a downward spiral that needs to be broken somehow.

Reading this type of material and being around other uplifting people helps to break out of that cycle and see opportunities. Opportunities are always there, but a mind clouded by frustration can rarely see them.

Would be great to hear you've found great work that you enjoy in a place you're happy to live. I'm working on this as well - same age, looking to relocate (again), and possibly shifting careers slightly. Let's make it happen :wink:


Thanks, Matty. I ain't that much of a bummer, actually. :lol: I try to enjoy life and keep a positive outlook overall, and I'd like to think I was fun to be around when I'm not talking about this career nonsense. Honestly, other than finding a handful of openings a week to apply to fulfill my unemployment, I'm avoiding it for the most part. There's better things to do with my time than apply to a hundred jobs and get nothing back. I learned that the last time I was unemployed. It feels like it's on the prospective employer to decide if I'm trash or gold. Nothing I can say seems to make much of a difference.

I'm going on a 15-day road trip with a good friend next week. Doing some sailing on Superior, backpacking in Glacier and Yellowstone. It should be fun. I'll do my damnedest not to think about this racket for the time being, and just enjoy life.

Re: Got laid off... want to relocate, but where to?

Postby Variant » September 12th, 2017, 9:32 am

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Variant
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Welp, Florida is gonna be fucked up for a while. Guess I'll be stuck with the fam until Xmas at least.

Re: Got laid off... want to relocate, but where to?

Postby idainc » September 17th, 2017, 10:23 am


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I escaped AZ. In terms of ID its a barren wasteland. It stems from the nature of the state where music and art are the first things cut from education budgets. It is after all #49 in education spending nationwide.

Have you seen the job at MTD in Tempe ? Do an Indeed search for ID in Tucson. You could always apply for one of the many Honeywell ID jobs they never fill. Boon on Tempe. Ping. You might find it to be more njoyable....

Unfortunately, ID is a young persons game and by young I mean under 40 years old.

PM if you want to know more.

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idainc wrote:Unfortunately, ID is a young persons game and by young I mean under 40 years old.

PM if you want to know more.



So I see that the same comment has come up a few time from the OP and others, stating that ID is a young persons job - What has given you this point of view? I will be 46 next year and at the age of 42 i had 3 job opportunities too chose from, i have had countless headhunters and corporations contact me which i have not pursued because of either salary or responsibilities. I also had many opportunities i applied for over the last 20 years of my career that ended with "we thank you for your interest but......"

Now a key to what i believe i have done is to ensure that my skills are relevant and that i can provide value in a diverse range of areas as well as keeping my execution skills honed (i do renderings and cad work for fun) I have continued to grow my knowledge in areas that are relevant to today's industry. I was always taught that at the end of the year you should be able to look back and determine how i am better then a year ago.

I'm sorry i just do not buy the I'm to old to get a job" excuse.

Re: Got laid off... want to relocate, but where to?

Postby bepster » September 18th, 2017, 9:21 am

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cwatkinson wrote:... i have had countless headhunters and corporations contact me which i have not pursued because of either salary or responsibilities.


I think this might be the point though...
I am not sure the problem is that there aren't enough ID jobs but that there need to be the right ID jobs for where people are in their late 30's and onwards.
A lot of ID positions are really badly paid unless you have managed to really build a profile and have become a leader in your field.
Just being a mid-level staff designer might be difficult to handle if you have certain expectations on quality of life or a family to care for. I get contacted quite a bit by recruitment as well but honestly, most of the offers are just not interesting to me as the pay is way off.

When I effectively started my ID career in my early 30's, I felt the pressure immensely to have to progress at twice the speed as my colleagues that were 5,6 or 7 years younger. I felt that I had to catch up in order to be at a place I felt I needed to be going towards 40.

So I absolutely agree that if you stay current, there are indeed jobs but I am not sure that these are necessarily the jobs you want or need when you are a bit older and that getting there does get a lot more difficult as times goes on.

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bepster wrote:
cwatkinson wrote:... i have had countless headhunters and corporations contact me which i have not pursued because of either salary or responsibilities.


So I absolutely agree that if you stay current, there are indeed jobs but I am not sure that these are necessarily the jobs you want or need when you are a bit older and that getting there does get a lot more difficult as times goes on.


That nails it. depending on where your needs take you can make it harder to find that next job...... I have a friend who is a Sr designer and his company wants him to be the design director, but he wants nothing of it. he like what he is doing and is damn good at it, and his desire to keep doing what he is doing out weighs his need to have a higher salary.

I have another friend that misses doing traditional ID work with a focus on execution but her path took her to more of a director lvl - she now struggles trying to obtain a job that fits because he skills have fallen so far behind......

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