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slippyfish
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I just submitted a proposal, selling "design solutions" rather than hours. Funny/strange/sad how designers of all stripes will undervalue their work, or be susceptible to others devaluing their work. I didn't fall into this scheme, this time. Broke out the project into four phases with 'a la carte' pricing, but made sure that the first two phases were more or less mandatory in order to get the project completed. The last phase was CAD which would be estimated and budgeted on an hourly basis rather than a lump sum. As a manager now I have direct insight into how long projects take even the most efficient designers, and the sad truth is that a lot of freelancers are making very little compared to where they should be.

However - we shall see what the potential client says in return. In which case, the lunchbreath graphic rule shall apply:

lunchbreath_acceptable-design-projects.jpg
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“Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy."

http://www.superformer.com
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yo
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I came across this video a few weeks ago, and then I lost it. Luckily it resurfaced on Facebook. I cannot for the life of me find a youtube link, but this is really good and summa up my approach to pricing. You need to know what your hourly rate and speed are to create a proposal, but after that I look at it like this:
https://www.facebook.com/theFuturisHere ... 327592890/

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yo
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Found it:


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louis leblanc
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yo wrote:Found it:



The Futur (that youtube channel) has a bunch of other great resources and videos as well!

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slippyfish
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Anyone have any experience/tips on budgeting the CAD portion of a project? Where despite best intentions, the full extent of the 3D problem solving can't be fully understood until you are elbows-deep in a model?

My example is that I've completed the first two flat-rate phases of a project (initial research and scoping, and narrowed-down to two solutions worked out in sketches and AI). I now need to estimate the CAD portion.

My hypothesis is that I still should follow the rationale of the first phases and hope to get 'close'...its either that or start with an estimate and then bill it hourly with a "not to exceed" fee...which more or less amounts to the same thing.
“Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy."

http://www.superformer.com
http://www.coroflot.com/skhid


iab
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yo wrote:Found it:


A very good reference to know how to speak to your audience. Speak in their terms. Similar to the "What was your most successful product" thread.

He did take some liberties with GP. Although he did correct himself in one case.


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Found it:


Awesome video, absolutely brilliant. And a great way of thinking bigger.

"You guys sell what you can do. I sell what the world can do."


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Anyone have any experience/tips on budgeting the CAD portion of a project? Where despite best intentions, the full extent of the 3D problem solving can't be fully understood until you are elbows-deep in a model?


Wondering the same thing.

In that video above, has anybody tried those tactics for pricing a CAD job?

Or what other approaches have worked well?

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ralphzoontjens
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The more complex the assembly or geometry you will be working on, the more hours you will need to put in and that works somewhat exponentially. So you have to go by experience and for unknown territories count for the exponential effect. For any fixed price I base that on a number of hours with a given set of deliverables and number of iterations. When in excess of the hours, the contract agreed upon states that these hours will be paid extra.
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Re: How to handle pricing as a freelance designer

Postby iab » September 5th, 2017, 7:48 am


iab
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ralphzoontjens wrote: When in excess of the hours, the contract agreed upon states that these hours will be paid extra.


So, here's the price, unless I take too long, then I charge you extra?

Who signs that contract?

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slippyfish
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iab wrote:
ralphzoontjens wrote: When in excess of the hours, the contract agreed upon states that these hours will be paid extra.


So, here's the price, unless I take too long, then I charge you extra?

Who signs that contract?


It sounds super juicy, but I think ralph is right, and it comes back to the relationship you might have with the client. This is similar to the tactic I ended up doing - over-estimating the CAD hours, talking to the client about what I'll be doing, and reiterating that the goal is to not use all the time/hours listed. The CAD budget thus becomes "do not exceed" and if there is indication that we will, we have another conversation about why, and how much.

Breaking up the CAD into smaller bite sized portions "a la carte" for the client also seems to work - its easier to budget hours that way.
“Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy."

http://www.superformer.com
http://www.coroflot.com/skhid

Re: How to handle pricing as a freelance designer

Postby iab » October 19th, 2017, 3:10 pm


iab
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slippyfish wrote: The CAD budget thus becomes "do not exceed" and if there is indication that we will, we have another conversation about why, and how much.


How is that conversion not entirely off-putting to your client if they did not change scope?

You - Hi. I misquoted. I want more money.

Client - How is that my problem?

You - I apologize for my mistake. I didn't understand yada, yada, yada.

Client - Again, how is that my problem? I hired you because I know even less. You are the professional. Why didn't you see yada, yada, yada coming? It's your job.

At that point, what exactly do you say? I'm not a professional? I haven't a clue how to do this job? If you don't pay me ... ? As I see it, the only response the client has to any excuse is a pink slip. I've been in both places, it is not comfortable. I would agree you have a chance of going to the well with a long-term client, but only once. If someone ever came to me a second time, even on a different project, it would not turn out well.

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slippyfish
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iab wrote:
slippyfish wrote: The CAD budget thus becomes "do not exceed" and if there is indication that we will, we have another conversation about why, and how much.


How is that conversion not entirely off-putting to your client if they did not change scope?

You - Hi. I misquoted. I want more money.

Client - How is that my problem?

You - I apologize for my mistake. I didn't understand yada, yada, yada.

Client - Again, how is that my problem? I hired you because I know even less. You are the professional. Why didn't you see yada, yada, yada coming? It's your job.

At that point, what exactly do you say? I'm not a professional? I haven't a clue how to do this job? If you don't pay me ... ? As I see it, the only response the client has to any excuse is a pink slip. I've been in both places, it is not comfortable. I would agree you have a chance of going to the well with a long-term client, but only once. If someone ever came to me a second time, even on a different project, it would not turn out well.


Yes, that would be terribly off-putting. If it was my mistake, I'd suck it up and eat the hours, as I think that would be the professional thing to do, which hopefully would preserve the relationship. But the to-not-exceed quote, and the a la carte menu, is supposed to prevent uncomfortable situations like those.

I'm fortunate to not rely on client work for my bread-and-butter however so I could be hopelessly naive.
“Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy."

http://www.superformer.com
http://www.coroflot.com/skhid

Re: How to handle pricing as a freelance designer

Postby AndyMc » November 19th, 2017, 4:32 am

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AndyMc
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yo wrote:Found it:



Thanks for posting that, it’s such a good way to approach pricing. The company I work for recently had a client blow up in anger when they were told that they would have to start paying for my time (design is sold for free normally :x - it’s a sheet metal workshop), and demand that it remain free or they would get their product manufactured elsewhere. It’s amazing how many clients expect something complex to take an hour or two and only cost them a few hundred bucks.

F7236A4A-951E-429B-B68C-E9BDBFD4732A.jpeg

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