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Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby iab » September 12th, 2017, 10:54 am


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Incorrect.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby masood1224 » September 12th, 2017, 11:46 am

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Variant, I'm sorry you've reached a barrier. Welcome to your first design problem. We've all been there.

Lesson 1. Ask the right question for YOUR answer. "getting a job in design". There are several ambiguities to that question to begin with. What is design to YOU? I'm not going to answer that for you. "getting" do you mean, internship, entry level, fellowship, etc. "job" what is your level of compensation; experience, salary, hourly, barter, etc. Spend a few moments and craft several questions that will provide more insights into what you're seeking. Trust me, once you get that "design job" you'll have to deal with clients asking weird and ambiguous questions, constantly. It's up to you to sort, filter, restate and direct the response. God speed to a more beautiful question.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby iab » September 12th, 2017, 11:59 am


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Variant wrote:M'kay. Try a search for "getting a job in design". Enjoy wading through the shit.


You try a search for "self-fulling prophecy". Enjoy getting a clue.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Cyberdemon » September 12th, 2017, 12:02 pm

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I thought based on the last thread you were getting out of it completely?

UI/UX work is far more available because 1: Virtually every company has some type of digital presence. 2: We're surrounded by a lot of screens.

Doesn't mean ID work is gone. All of my ID friends are still gainfully employed, Coroflot has ~100 jobs listed (I remember trying to get hired during the 2007 recession when there were maybe 15 job postings nationwide).

The recipe hasn't changed. Have a good portfolio, be willing to move, and network as much as possible. The IDSA national conference was just last month.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby yo » September 12th, 2017, 12:28 pm

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I started my own ID consulting studio this year. After fretting about it for years and making a business plan, I took the leap in April. I've already got two contractors working for me regularly and a back log of projects into the new year in branding, design strategy, design language systems and traditional ID.

I'm saying this as a point of reference. Physical design is not dead. I feel for you, and it sucks that you are in your current situation. Assessing the field incorrectly isn't going to help. There is work out there. I know it is hard to make an honest assessment of why you aren't getting work. If there is someone you trust who can give it to you straight (and if you have the ability to hear that), I think that would be helpful.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby KenoLeon » September 12th, 2017, 2:21 pm

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- It seems you have a very pessimistic outlook and attitutde which for all I know is completely justified.Venting here or in other ways might feel good in the short term, but it might also be turning away potential clients, jobs, mudding your perspective and feeding a bad loop, it also does very little to change your situation, does this make sense ?

- UI/UX/Web Development is a competitive field right now, I have more than a decade in building web pages /UI-UX and have a decent reputation/portfolio etc,etc, which took years to build and a lot of effort, yet I still struggle getting clients and interviews like most of my peers, hiring in general I think is broken, but then again if I had a cushy job or plenty of ID work I would say it works perfectly and the Industry is fine, so I don't think it is as clear cut as following X or Y persons advice. We all have different starting places, situations and realities we need to adapt to and overcome, our particular experiences also colors our views.

- Look, I think this is lost on many struggling designers including at times myself, your life can be a design problem, by that I mean that if you frame it as a design problem things become much clearer and solutions and insights might come out of the process.

For instance, I just moved to a place where I sense there is little product design culture, it is badly paid, few jobs, it's hard to network and on an on,( I love design and want to make a living doing as much of it as possible, that is my initial perceived problem) , first of all I doubt myself on my initial assessment, it could be a weird year, I could be unlucky, whats the data ?, I could be happier not doing design, etc,etc. But regardless this is my reality, these are the hard limits of my problem which for now becomes how can I do as much design as possible when there are no design jobs ?, when I can't seem to put money into my bank account through design activities ? It might still not be the right problem, but I can start trying out various prototypes for the solution, I could fund my design activities by doing part time work in other fields or finding a patron, I could fill my design needs by applying design techniques like sketching and prototyping to other things, I could take a break from design and see how that feels, and on and on, then I try each prototype or idea for a little while, a few weeks or months maybe and then I tally them up and repeat the process, this is what I am doing as we speak.

-Finally, I don't know you and it is hard reading people through the internet , but I feel that you are full of pride in your work, have a ton of experience in diverse fields and also has a supporting family/friends, these things I think are all strengths you have ( you might have a ton more) and you can use them to get unstuck.

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Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby cwatkinson » September 12th, 2017, 3:14 pm

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If you would like, i would be happy to set up a phone conversation with you and discuss this situation to perhaps help provide guidance,direction, different POV.

Let me know


chevisw@hotmail.com

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby AndyMc » September 12th, 2017, 10:18 pm

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You've posted a bunch of threads on here over the past couple of months/years about:
1) No full-time jobs replying to you
2) No freelance jobs replying to you
3) Your location not being good for NPD
4) Your 15-20 years of experience not being enough to get a job
5) Happy clients not being enough to get a job

You've been given lots of advice, most of which you still haven't done (i.e. post a portfolio for review). It's a competitive industry, and I understand completely the frustration of being rejected from application after application, but why the hell would I hire you when you post comments like below (taken from the 10 yr folio thread). If you hate the basics how can I trust you to handle the 'holistic' part of the role.

Variant wrote:Despite happy clients, the ID crowd told me mine was fucking trash so I took it down. I'm kinda punk rock and don't follow the cultist rules of portfolios, but it's art to me, and ID to me was always 50% creativity / 50% science. It's my process. Fuck creatives for working intuitively, right? Burn every album that was made by anyone who didn't bother to learn to read music. Yeah. :lol:

So honestly, I strictly market myself as a product development coordinator / manager these days. Use the left brain angle. 8)

I just hate the busy work of sketching (I don't sketch ever, TBH, fuck you all), CAD, rendering, etc. anyway, unless it's a personal project.
I'd rather make things happen from the holistic level these days... balance all the nuances of a project with marketing, trade, manufacturing, R&D, engineering, etc. It's a happier place for me.


As said above, the get hired recipe hasn't really changed, and the parts of your post above that I've made bold are perhaps hurting your chances.

From my 2 second google, and I don't live in the USA so my search might come up differently to yours, I have a list of design places you could at least call to network with in Arizona:
http://www.idsa.org/communities/chapter ... in/arizona

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby iab » September 13th, 2017, 8:06 am


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Variant wrote:I'll do that, thanks.


Sorry, that ship has obviously sailed.

Do you want to pile on some more?

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby cwatkinson » September 13th, 2017, 9:12 am

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I didn't recall OP's previous comments. in all honesty its great that he accepts who he is and will not conform, but then accept that that limits your options and move on.

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You will always get negative feedback, sometimes a lot, sometimes a bit less. So continue on your way and make sure to have something that impresses people and provides value.
http://www.designsoul.nl
Designsoul - Product Design & Visualisation

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby Cyberdemon » September 13th, 2017, 9:32 am

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Designer who doesn't like designing in design-less area complains about lack of design jobs that he doesn't actually want.

Not sure if we're the ones with confused expectations or what. If you don't want to do design the other areas of product development either lead you into program management, product management, or engineering. Being a "Guy who can help make things" consultant is only so valuable because big engineering consultancies want people with broad engineering or manufacturing specialties, not design backgrounds.

Unless you actually know what job title you want to make you happy, finding that job will continue to be impossible. I would say to pursue a management track but unless you have the design vision and interpersonal skills to lead a design team, (which coming into a new position would require a great portfolio to show how your design successes in the past) that will not be an easy job to get.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby frdiby » September 13th, 2017, 1:15 pm

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For Variant, I did some research over the summer to find some cool international design schools just in case I decide to get a masters. I found this school in the Netherlands, english speaking, cheaper than UMEA Institute of Design, and has connections with design firms.
https://www.tudelft.nl/onderwijs/opleid ... ct-design/

They have 3 Industrial Design masters degrees and one of them may interest you. It is their Strategic Product Design Masters, focusing on business strategy and basically deciding the direction the business should go. I wasn't interested because there wasn't any sketching, but from what you describe, you may really like this - and if you are looking for employment advice, there will be professors and actual companies interacting with you at this school to give you just that. Concerning funding, I've done some research on scholarships, and found a huge truckload of scholarships exist, you just have to take the time to apply. I know of a few students who went to all sorts of sites online and made over a $100K in scholarship money. Here are a couple that were suggested to me-
http://www.fastweb.com/
http://www.scholarshipmonkey.com/
https://www.goodcall.com/scholarships/
https://www.chegg.com/scholarships
http://foundationcenter.org/
http://studentaid.ed.gov/types/scams#dont-pay-for-help - just some advice for avoiding scams

The only reason I was looking at a Master's degree was because I was interested in working internationally - and the best way to do that is to have a visa, and meet people in person - in addition, I heard designers with master's degrees are more valued in Europe -


I also looked up some of the grads from that school to see what they were up to. Some of them have some fairly prestigious positions, and big ideas that they share as guest speakers and such.

Kinda way out of the box, but maybe it will give you some ideas.

Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby frdiby » September 13th, 2017, 2:55 pm

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For general advice, I found this youtube video, but you probably already saw this:


Re: Went looking for design employment advice...

Postby KenoLeon » September 26th, 2017, 3:12 pm

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Variant wrote:Unfortunately, I'm 40 and way past the "starting over" thing.


Starting over has this big weight and stigma attached to it, a factory that used to build a product that no longer sells can retool and be successful, something that is very common and normal. The age part is also subjective, I am about your age and recently got shot down by frog for a web development position, I figured they could use an experienced web developer that also happens to love and dabble in ID, I've literally spent years analyzing portfolios for fun. Nope, for whatever reasons they sent me the standard HR cold shoulder response. I will still apply to positions that I perceive are a good fit with cool companies, but I've gotten so much better response ( both financially and at the personal level) from things and projects I see myself starting from zero. While these new projects are not 100% ID or Web Development, I think leveraging what I've learned elsewhere gives me a leg up.

BTW, a very close relative started from scratch at 65 and didn't achieve success until 72,hoping both you and I achieve it sooner !, but in my mind failure is when you stop trying, you try the same stuff expecting different results or simply settle.
Last edited by KenoLeon on September 27th, 2017, 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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