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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby no_spec » October 1st, 2013, 1:28 pm


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Yo, very accurate for appliances.
running shoes, sports cars and mansions have the inverse curve - no?

Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby slippyfish » October 1st, 2013, 2:52 pm

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...and wristwatches...
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby yo » October 1st, 2013, 3:30 pm

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I think it is true of pretty much everything, with exceptions of course, but in general.

Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby Mr-914 » October 2nd, 2013, 6:50 am

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Bell curve: I'm designing for a company that makes retail home decor stuff. The interesting thing about Yo's curve is how subtle changes bump the product from $ category to $$$ category. Just a little more attention to molding (ie less flash, less witness lines, more attention to sink marks). Materials (obviously). Little bespoke additions, like a dot matrix LCD in place of a standard 7 segment cheapo. It's really brought that to my attention.

Ranges: Why are you so against plastics? I'm against bad design and bad engineering, not against any material per se.
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby j2cervin » October 2nd, 2013, 7:52 am


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I am fairly sure I have the electric version of that Kitchenaide. Although, it may be a previous generation due to its age (~3 yrs old). It works great, although it has its design issues. The display is on an angled face somewhere between the fridgedair and Kitchenaide. It drives me crazy because anytime you cook on the front (think bacon), that display gets covered in stuff that you then get to touch to use the oven. It is a high gloss, so it is very apparent when anything gets on it. Also, the area underneath the handle where it connects to the door is impossible to clean. We have to just pull a rag back and forth and hope that it gets everything out. You can definitely tell on the SS where you cant get the cleaner.

It is a great range though. The oven cooks very even and the cooktop gets water to a boil fairly quickly. The probe is amazing though. I can tell you how many times we have just tossed a full chicken or even the thanksgiving turkey and just let it do its thing. It always stops the oven at the perfect time. We had no idea this feature existed, but I am thankful we found it!

Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby slippyfish » October 2nd, 2013, 11:07 am

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Mr-914 wrote:
Ranges: Why are you so against plastics? I'm against bad design and bad engineering, not against any material per se.


I think the use of plastic to create that Fridgidaire bezel constitutes bad design. I think there were design tradeoffs to create that sculptured form at the expense of durability. The upward-facing angle would be helpful, but there's no way that bezel will look good after a few years of use. In order to get a range truly clean you have to kind of disassemble as much as possible, and put it all in the sink for some scrubbing. That bezel will need to be scrubbed in place with similar cleaners - I just can't see the finish holding up.

Secretly I was hoping someone who reads these forums had a hand in the design and could tell me otherwise!
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby yo » October 2nd, 2013, 12:35 pm

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Mr-914 wrote:Bell curve: I'm designing for a company that makes retail home decor stuff. The interesting thing about Yo's curve is how subtle changes bump the product from $ category to $$$ category. Just a little more attention to molding (ie less flash, less witness lines, more attention to sink marks). Materials (obviously). Little bespoke additions, like a dot matrix LCD in place of a standard 7 segment cheapo. It's really brought that to my attention.



Too true. I always tell my team this obsessive attention to detail is the difference between simple and minimal.

Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby Robbie_roy » October 2nd, 2013, 9:48 pm

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Never heard of differentiating simple and minimal, but it makes perfect sense ... some good stuff to think about.

Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby mo-i » October 3rd, 2013, 1:54 am

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Never seen that bell curve before. Who did that? Context?

Frightening to hear you talk about 5-10 years of use. Nobody over here would accept that. One is used
to applainces that outlast the average marriage 2:1.

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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby yo » October 4th, 2013, 9:06 am

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mo-i ... Ijust made it up based on observation.

Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby slippyfish » October 4th, 2013, 12:38 pm

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mo-i wrote:Frightening to hear you talk about 5-10 years of use. Nobody over here would accept that. One is used
to applainces that outlast the average marriage 2:1.

mo-i


The actual sales person in the store quoted those lifespan estimates. They offer warranty plans up to five years for a few hundred dollars. I agree with you however, I wish they would last 20 years with minimal upkeep and maintenance!

The appliance store I visited was Albert Lee...they have several locations in the Seattle metro area, and have a good showroom with stuff from the middle price ranges up to the very very nice Gaggenau, Wolf-Sub-Zero, Viking, etc... they have smart sales people with no-BS attitudes.
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby Lmo » October 5th, 2013, 11:45 am

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Been working out of town... late to the party, as usual.

One thing to consider is the performance you need. Gas is slowest. Residential BTU output is nowhere near that of commercial restaurants because of safety regulations. So most of the market for gas cook tops is more about the appearance of professionalism. How important is this to you? if very important then the one that looks best is the way to go.

if you can run 220 volts, Induction is by far the most efficient way to turn electricity to heat.


I'm glad you threw in the comment about the most efficient method of turning electricity into heat. Burning gas is the most efficient way to produce heat, and I'd argue that gas produces more evenly dispersed heat across the cooking vessel (bottom and sides). Natural gas is cheaper than electricity, and does not fail when the power goes out.

And I don't agree that gas cook tops are "more about the appearance of professionalism"; I don't cook for a few hundred people per night. I prefer gas because it is more intuitive to use; big flame/more heat; little flame/less heat, and is instantly responsive to adjustment.

Granted ... gas appliances are initially more expensive to buy and install (especially if your house is not plumbed for gas). Children and pets may be more at risk from burns with an open flame, but then, they are at risk from the less obviously perceived threat of an electric cook-top as well. And accumulated electricity has never caused a structure to explode. Image
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby NURB » October 5th, 2013, 12:15 pm

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Gas FTW. There is no substitute. The even heat thing depends more on your pans than anything, but with gas you can control the heat much easier. Electric takes far too long to cool if your pan gets too hot. Not sure about induction though.
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby Lmo » October 5th, 2013, 2:52 pm

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The even heat thing depends more on your pans than anything,


At our house; vintage copper bottom Revereware (the new (1960 and later) stuff isn't as heavy) and cast iron.
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Re: buying a range - soliciting advice

Postby Eddison » October 5th, 2013, 9:10 pm


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Gas burner is also visual and I can judge the amount of output by the height of the flame - low, medium, high. I haven't yet made the visual connection of low/medium/high on an electric coil burner, nor the numerical relationship to a digital readout telling me the temperature. Remember, a major part of "cooking" is controlling the heat.

Oh, I'm an amateur cook. Hobbyist by necessity?

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