Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 14th, 2013, 1:05 am


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yo wrote:Victor, do you want to be a professional designer? Or do you just want to have fun and post some renders? I think some clarity regarding your intent might help guide the conversation.

If you want to become a professional designer, there are plenty of us on these boards who are glad to help with feedback and advice. This is a pretty encouraging community that is happy to have more talent in the field.

If you just want to post renderings, that is fine as well, but you will likely get few comments.




The only way to achieve professionalism, is in practice. If I could get an internship right now, would take. But I'm not going to demand something that I have not deserved by knowledge and effort. But in the real world, some things can not be achieved, but that does not mean you can not do things you like.


If someone is not able to answer a simple question like this:

"...Before designing the outsole of "In the flesh" design, I knew I had a problem to solve with traction. Vertical tissues, maybe these need something like a zig zag, and more depth in the relief. Any tip? I would like to keep the lines as they are, to keep the concept clearer."


But have no availability to contribute anything. I question what you've told me.

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby yo » January 14th, 2013, 10:57 am

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So the answer is yes, you would like to transition to being a professional footwear designer.

Are you focused on basketball shoes?

On the "flesh" concept, it could be produced with effort, but the question is why would an athlete want to wear a shoe that looked like human tissue? It would be cosmetic in nature, in order to product it it would be highly synthetic and molded, like the Nike Foamposite you showed. A very cool shoe that is hot and stiff. Who would this be fore and how would it help them to perform better?

On the outsole, you would definitely need multidirectional traction like herringbone (zig zag). A pivot point would also help as would moving the flex groove in the forefoot rearward. You don't neccesarily need so much rubber under the arch of the foot. The foot doesn't contact the ground much there and eliminating rubber in this area reduces a lot of weight. What you may need there is a shank plate of some sort to stiffen this area.

Below is a good example of an outsole designed by Brian Kutsch, one of my designers when we both worked at Converse. It clearly shows good overall positioning of flex grooves, a pivot point, multidirectional traction, as well as more solid rubber in areas of high abrasion.

Most NBA athletes want their footwear to be lighter, more flexible in the forefoot, and supportive through the mid foot and ankle with lots of adjustability and lock down in the laces (a lot of them tape their ankles pretty aggressively which means the shoe needs a wider opening to fit them). Would love for you take this feedback and incorporate it. Make you concept more around how the shoe works vs how it looks. Develop the aesthetic concept in concert with the functional one.

In the below example, the concept was taking the aesthetic from 80's basketball shoes (and their relevance to Converse's glory days in the sport, Bird vs Magic, as well as popular culture from the 80's through to today, people still wear 80's BBall shoes) and fuse that with modern performance techniques, best practices and material science to produce an NBA level shoe that could cross over to the street. I think Brian did an excellent job hitting that brief in this midsole/outsole unit.
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Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby crewkid » January 14th, 2013, 11:00 am


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"The only way to achieve professionalism, is in practice. "

This is true, but only practicing a dunk will not make you a better basketball player.
Many people here have tried to offer you feedback that will take you to the next level. They only do this because they see potential in your work, but you have to stop being defensive and listen. The feedback you are disregarding is coming from well respected designers not trolls.

"If I could get an internship right now, would take."

We want to help you achieve this goal

"But I'm not going to demand something that I have not deserved by knowledge and effort. But in the real world, some things can not be achieved, but that does not mean you can not do things you like."

You can gain this knowledge, but you have to be open to receiving it.
You have nice rendering techniques but fundamentals are lagging behind. As previously mentioned by several designers, you will see great improvements in your designs by sketching more and focusing on proportions. See Yo's above post, he gave you a great template.

No one is attacking you, we all really want to see you successful.

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 14th, 2013, 1:58 pm


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Actually I do not care, and do not have time to attend the waffles. It's easy to recognize a person who gives you advice, but behind it is the intention of publicly disparaging an effort. Those are things that are everywhere, and the forums are not exceptions. That man, I do not know his name. Without even addressing my humble question about traction soles, presented here, swearing that I'm something like a tonic salesman, for baldness. And say I'm a designer opportunistic. All that seems certain, if I was willing to take a place that is not for me. But it seems that the prejudices are more important than individual efforts. I seem normal, a situation like this, but in a forum of manga and anime. Many people have come to these forums for professional designers in essence, and go faster than their entry. Leave here scared. Because here predominant culture of anti camaraderie. That's a normal thing, another thing that is not normal, is someone who ultimately did not feel uncomfortable. But that's no problem for me. I'm used to that, and I have sufficient confidence in my personality. What it has become a problem, is that fruits are not generated from a seed of ideas. Those that say about the project, just want to see a technical failure to have the power to reject a proposal.


This, without wanting to understand, these are exercises for product image. Personally, I do not think it's right that a product has more conceptual than technical support. But massive industry indicates that the concept is important and the outside of a product, otherwise, all shoes were white. Behind a bestseller, is the marketing, franchising celebrities, brainwashing, etc ... And below is the product. I tried several successful products, I will not say which brand. But these shoes are very inefficient. There is a huge amount of shoes that have been poorly designed technically. And it was not my fault. In that I can contribute to improve the shoes of a technical way? No way. Today, I have no money, I have no money even to scan a sketch. Much less to experiment with prototypes.


There is a standard way to develop a product. The ideas, sketches, renderings, prototypes, after marketing management company. Finally, manufacturing, and the product in the store. All this, with a specific order. clichés and customs. All that, I do not intend to change that. Right now, I'm trying to explore concepts for a brand that has created its own identity, which has taken many years to position behind Nike. That has been very interesting to me, because it is not easy. Today, the adidas brand is identified at a distance, even without seeing the logo. They have created a fetish. Behind that did millions of dollars. Even the Adidas brand can develop more, but personally I think there is a barrier that lies from the adidas logo design. is rigidity. and this rigidity has moved to the external image of the shoes. Fortunately that has given them success. They bet on that and everything went well. But the years will pass, and you will get bored. The brand is going to stall? I do not know.

There are consumers who have not been addressed. Consumers who would like to use a shoe made of muscle tissue, as well as consumers who are currently using a diamond-inspired shoe, embroidered shoes as swetters etc ...


Of all the ideas I have raised, perhaps, only one is feasible to develop. the important thing is to take good things from each design, and learn from that. The technical aspects? for now that does not bother me too much, because you know enough about it. And if you have not focused on the conceptualization of ideas that seem absurd, not to devote effort to the image of a product, then it means that you have to motivate these aspects also. For now I do, with my limited knowledge. Tomorrow, if I can have the opportunity to develop, will be another story.


Crewkid:
Professionalism is obtained practicing in business, and also manufacturing, even the person in charge of cleaning, can be a good designer, if he can learn to observe. Initially I said that, for now, now I can not work "in situ", so I do not think there are real opportunities for me. Thank you

Yo: If adidas had followed the traditional form of a shoe, specifically the shape of the silhouette that describes the correct proportion of a shoe, the adizero line would not exist. Check the proportions of some models adizero, heel (about 90 degrees). and some other things distinctive. And thanks for the tips of the traction.

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby nordmade » January 16th, 2013, 7:50 am


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A conceptual design is exactly what your renderings are, they are merely thoughts in your head and even you admit that you don't know that they work because you don't have any footwear experience. The foamposite was a concept at one point and i guarantee it evolved from a very "out there" conceptual sketch through refinement to the final shoe in production. Your shoes are drawings [albeit they're decent renderings] but there is no thought as to construction etc. No stitch lines, understanding how the components will assemble etc.

Your development process is virtually non existent as you go from sketch to "marketing" in one swoop which is why some people on here have advised to refine ideas early on instead of going with your first thought which is what the "flesh" shoe is. It's clearly a crazy idea you had and you probably thought to go straight to render on it, when in actual fact this shoe is incredibly difficult to produce and would actually prevent an athlete to perform. Without knowing production techniques you are hindering yourself from developing and finalising good innovative design.

some of my favourite quotes from Dieter Rams below and perhaps something you should take from this thread

Good design makes a product useful.

Good design is thorough down to the last detail

And finally my favourite quote is "Good design is as little design as possible" which is one which is difficult to apply in fashion/footwear depending on who you work for.

Good luck

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 16th, 2013, 10:57 am


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Hey, it never hurts to experienced people, like you, come to the forums to share. I wish I knew your name, and to know samples of your work, and find inspiration, based on the hard work in the world of manufacturing.

I understand how overwhelming it is, deal with reality, to be responsible for many things, want to make a more durable product, with more quality. Manufacturer classical thought, begins with the fear of the new. That's understandable, I have manufactured things that have nothing to do with shoes. And I know perfectly that such problems arise by something that is not feasible to manufacture. All this is understandable.

Someone said:

"They say it's impossible, then let's do it"

You have recognized that the design foamposite, born of something conceptual.

I'm confused, you say that the design is conceptual, to understand that it is not feasible to manufacture. But we have the example of foamposite, is a physical design, was built many years ago.


So I think, you're referring to the conceptual, trying to assess whether the design can have a massive consumer. Is that it?

If so, it's good to question that aspect. I make designs based on what I consider inspiring. It is acceptable if the design you like, or do not like. But I'm sure, in the barracks of the big shoe companies, right now, there are designers working on radical ideas about conceptualization and materials. That does not mean that all ideas are going out to made ​​in the workshops. That is an ongoing search for new things. If that were not so, no one would have made ​transparent shoes.

Image

Image

It's okay to say "I do not like". But that does not mean that things do not have value. You can say "that's not right", and you can also enrich your criticism suggesting things, more camaraderie, and everything will be okay in this forum.

What you think about that?

I'd like to ask a few things rather open questions for the forum, please do not go.

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 16th, 2013, 12:34 pm


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Nordmade:

If you want, you can also help me with the following:

I adapted the aesthetic lines of the design "In the Flesh" above the foamposite shoe shape. I have curiosity about the technical problems of this design.

Using my little knowledge of stitching, materials, soles and midsoles. I see that it is difficult for the continuity of the lines of the upper to match the lines of the sole.

My question is:

What technical problems prevent the shoe foamposite to adopt design lines "In the Flesh"?

It is also an open question to the forum.

I hope you can help me.

Image

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 17th, 2013, 11:35 am


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After a brief search of organic forms in the adizero line, it's time to explore within the same line, fidelity to the concept, keep the style "tech" but looking for an edge, make it even more interesting, the challenge:

More "Tech"
Add subtle touch of organic forms.
Make themed shoes.
Incorporate performance advantages.

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 21st, 2013, 1:40 pm


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Experimenting


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Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby crewkid » January 21st, 2013, 2:55 pm


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Nice to see you experimenting with construction.
I hope you don't mind but I took a few minutes to play with the proportions on your latest rendering. It is not perfect, but you can see the idea
Image

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 21st, 2013, 4:01 pm


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Crewkid:
Thanks for contributing to the experiment. You know something, I'm confused about what you tell me, I do not doubt your knowledge about it. But I have drawn in the shape of the adizero line.
The shape of the shoes Adizero is different from most shoes.

confusion:

Should designers work with shapes (shoe lasts) strictly?
Or can also submit proposals for designs in the form of a certain style?

I think of the designs in the final form, for example in the shape of the shoe I want in the window of the store. In this case, based on adizero line.

How can you achieve that distinctive shape (at the factory)?
They make the shoe lasts (Especially for that style?)
How do you communicate (visually), a style like adizero, for manufacturing?
In this case, the design idea of ​​"tactical" is to create a shoe that looks like a insdustrial boot (synthetic cap for finger protection). How can we make a shape like that (in the factory and in a screen)?
How can give personality to a shoe? With different shapes of molds for shoes?
Tell me what you think, looks weird this style of this shoe?


Image

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby crewkid » January 21st, 2013, 5:21 pm


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Should designers work with shapes (shoe lasts) strictly?
If you have a last shape this is ideal, but not necessary for just sketch work. As you move into a more finished design/rendering it can help a lot. If you are using a last, besure to allow for material thickness.
Or can also submit proposals for designs in the form of a certain style?
You can use a certain style if you like. It is good that you started with an existing shoe shape, but you will want to stylize your drawings a bit to make them visually more appealing. A lot of designers will tilt the heel forward and make the toe sleeker. Even the adizero sketch does this

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Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby crewkid » January 21st, 2013, 5:41 pm


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Im not a huge fan of the adizero proportions, but here is your rendering adjusted to the sketch proportions...
Image

Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 22nd, 2013, 12:26 pm


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Thanks Crewkid. This is the style of the designer who made the shoes adizero. Everyone draws their own way. I like the shoes adizero, because these are rare, these are not beautiful, but different, a different beauty. I will do an analysis of that.


I was thinking of an original way to present the views of the design. It's fun with a cube template.


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Re: Adidas Next Step

Postby victordcantu » January 23rd, 2013, 8:33 am


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