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Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 3rd, 2015, 7:27 am


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yo, that is the second generation of the first great Italian derailleur, the Vittoria Margherita. It is actually too "new" for that bike and I have since replaced it with the first generation VM, but more on that later.

The "lever" behind the crank is a chain tensioner. There is a pivot on the chain stay. The "arch" just above the crank connecting the seat tube to the down tube is a ratchet that holds the lever in place and keeps tension after you shift. The little triangle on top of lever turns and actuates the "flappers" on the chain stay between the crank and rear gears.

So to shift, you push forward on the lever, that makes the chain slack. While back pedaling, you twist the triangle which moves the flappers and then moves the chain to the next gear. You then pull the lever back to reapply tension to the chain. And Bob's yer uncle.

The first generation VM does not have the flappers, you need to move the chain with your hand as you back pedal to change gears. It isn't so bad when you get used to it.

For some history, the first year the Tour de France allowed derailleurs was 1937. All teams used the Osgear Super Champion, a French copy of the VM. In 1938, again all teams used the Osgear except the Italians (kind of a nationalist, fascist thing). They were allowed to use the VM. Gino Bartali won the tour that year using the VM.


Second gen

ImageFrejus035 by iabisdb, on Flickr


Rachet

ImageFrejus038 by iabisdb, on Flickr


Flappers

ImageFrejus041 by iabisdb, on Flickr


A better bottle shot

Image_MG_9153 by iabisdb, on Flickr


My favorite detail, the chain oiler

ImageFrejus075 by iabisdb, on Flickr


First gen VM

Image_MG_9137 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 3rd, 2015, 7:38 am


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One more history lesson.

The first great Italian derailleur was the Vittoria Margherita. Dominated from 1930-1940.

The second great Italian derailleur was the Campagnolo Cambio Corsa. Dominated from 1940-1950. Although the Simplex Tour de France was probably used more post war.

The third great Italian derailleur was the Campagnolo Gran Sport. Dominated from 1951-now. I say until now because is was the first commercially accepted parallelogram derailleur and all of today's derailleurs that followed are just a derivative. The first parallelogram derailleur was made by Nivex in 1938. Never caught on.

VM

Image_MG_9137 by iabisdb, on Flickr



Cambio Corsa

ImagePecorari 042 by iabisdb, on Flickr



Gran Sport

ImageCinelli_Model_B 095 by iabisdb, on Flickr

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby rkuchinsky » June 3rd, 2015, 9:01 am

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I don't know much about bikes, iab, and from your first post couldn't figure out what was so great about all the old bikes you posted since the names, dates and brands don't mean anything to me, but looking at the details (names still mean nothing to me) I can appreciate them a bit more. Some nice looking engineering and detailing on the small parts. Don't really get how any of it works or why it's good, but I like what I see.

So to change gears, you move those levers somehow? With your hands? How do you reach down there and not get your fingers stuck in the pedals while changing gears?

R
The Directive Collective
http://www.directivecollective.com

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 3rd, 2015, 9:29 am


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rkuchinsky wrote:So to change gears, you move those levers somehow? With your hands?


With the VM, the lever is a simple pivot. You can see the screw head at 8:00, inside of the chain ring. The ratchet and chain tension keep it in place. The upper portion of the lever is bent metal to lock into the ratchet. With the gen 1, you use your hand to move the chain across the rear gears, gen 2 you use the flappers.

With CC, the upper lever twists away from the frame. This loosens the wheel just like any quick release does today (Tulio Campagnolo invented the quick release). Yes that means the wheel is loose while riding. While the wheel is loose, the lower lever moves the chain across the rear gears, again while back pedaling. The rear dropout has teeth you can see in the first video. The rear axle has corresponding notches. The axle moves forwards and backwards in the dropout to keep chain tension. The teeth keeps the axle from twisting when shifting. When done shifting, tighten the wheel with the upper lever.







rkuchinsky wrote:How do you reach down there and not get your fingers stuck in the pedals while changing gears?


Carefully. ;)

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby danielchaney » June 3rd, 2015, 10:00 am


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Time to balance out all this old tech with some new tech. Behold, Yeti's SB5c, with their crazy "infinity link" suspension. So far... it is impressive.
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Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby scout144 » June 3rd, 2015, 8:20 pm


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Allcity Natureboy Zona (Love this bike)

Finished this last summer got a few cross races in before I had to move back to Chicago. For now its my big city commuter, I'm dying to get back into road riding but am holding out on adding to the fleet until I know my next move.
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Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby yo » June 3rd, 2015, 11:22 pm

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Iab, thank you for the detail. I like old bikes but am largely a poser. Now I have a little more knowledge. :-)

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby Mr-914 » June 4th, 2015, 7:06 am

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Those guys doing the mountain stages on fixies had to be juicing. OMG. Could they switch out gear ratios between stages at least?

Seeing that derailleur reminds me of the first time I rode with clipless shoes and fell off. I think I would kill myself reaching down to move my chain.
Ray Jepson

"The key to success in this business is to find a boss who doesn't care." - Mike Rowe

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 4th, 2015, 7:26 am


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Mr-914 wrote:Those guys doing the mountain stages on fixies had to be juicing. OMG. Could they switch out gear ratios between stages at least?.


I believe the introduction of the flip-flop hub into the tour was about 1911/1912? . There are different strategies, but what I have found is that on the flats, they would ride fixed. Prior to a climb, they flip the wheel to the freewheel side. Lower gearing ratio but more importantly, it allowed coasting for descents. Fixed up a hill isn't so bad. Spinning out on the downhill side sucks.

Also, walking was quite common back in the day. The domestique was also known to literally push their captain up the climb.

Image
Last edited by iab on June 4th, 2015, 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 4th, 2015, 7:32 am


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And yes, there has been juicing in cycle racing from the start. The Italians called it "la bomba". Amphetamines, cocaine, even strychnine.

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby laneyrvela » June 4th, 2015, 10:36 am


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There are some good looking machines on this thread!
Here's a pic of my baby- love to sport this guy around town.

IMG_8777 copy.jpg
Aventon Mataro

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 5th, 2015, 8:09 am


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I love pink bikes.

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby yo » June 5th, 2015, 11:56 am

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Richard's Biomega got me looking at their current offerings. what are your thoughts on this bike?
http://www.biomega.com/us/#!/us/product ... -automatic
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Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby Mr-914 » June 8th, 2015, 6:45 am

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I meant to post my bike this weekend, but forgot. For $1500, I want someone to push me uphill too.
Ray Jepson

"The key to success in this business is to find a boss who doesn't care." - Mike Rowe

Re: Whatcha ridin'?

Postby iab » June 8th, 2015, 8:27 am


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yo wrote:what are your thoughts on this bike?


Spendy for what you get.

Don't care much for the aesthetics of the integrated front fender. And then they don't even offer anything for the rear, probably look horrible with an SKS.

Belt drive and 2-speed SRAM is fine as long as you live in a flat city like NYC or Chicago.

Disc brakes at best are expensive and unnecessary for city riding.

The welding is clumsy.

The stem is simple and I like the reverse steer tube clamp but it lacks some refinement.

And are those foam grips? First thing I would change.

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