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rkuchinsky
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J6Studios wrote:Thanks for the info. I did a little redesign to show what I might have done to make it more in tune with the original and not so blocky. I'm far from a car designer but I wouldn't imagine these changes would compromise safety.

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Pretty sure those changes would affect safety. Essentially you've remove the bumpers in whole and made a nice knee breaking angle to them. Does look nicer though.

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Re: Whay are American Muscle Cars so Blocky???

Postby NURB » April 4th, 2011, 4:22 pm

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Right, as was mentioned you cut out the bumper supports completely. You could push them back, but then you lose the distance for which they have to deform, and remember that in a crash your two variables for impact force are distance and speed.

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The article Nurb posted talks about some of the changes. Remember how the last Mini got bigger? That was driven primarily by required Pedestrian impact laws.

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Scott Bennett
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Mr-914 wrote:As for the sources of these trends, I think the big wheels come from advances in tires and a desire to have a race car look.


I don't understand the gigantic wheel trend. I think a car riding around on 20" wheels (or 22" on the Fisker) looks ridiculous. Most race cars run on tiny wheels. F1 wheels are only 13" (dictated by rules). Indycars are 15". It is a severe PITA packaging brakes and decent suspension geometry inside a 13" wheel.

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Cyberdemon wrote:Right, as was mentioned you cut out the bumper supports completely. You could push them back, but then you lose the distance for which they have to deform, and remember that in a crash your two variables for impact force are distance and speed.


Do you think the body was designed around the frame or do you think they designed the frame to fit in that body?
I would think they take the design and an engineer would figure out how to make it happen.

I could take the bumper into consideration and still make it work. One could extend the front a bit more and use form changes to suggest the lines you want. I'd like to see what the original concept art looked like before the engineers told them it won't work!! :lol:

The original lines on this vehicle are slugish and bland. I think the 2 form changes I made on the door area of the vehicle changed the look to make it sleeker.

Also, can't the bumper be changed without effecting safety?
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I think the Dodge Viper worked very well! Beautiful lines on that car!!! I know it's not a redesign but it looks bad ass!
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Thanks for all the info!

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J6Studios wrote:
Do you think the body was designed around the frame or do you think they designed the frame to fit in that body?
I would think they take the design and an engineer would figure out how to make it happen.

I could take the bumper into consideration and still make it work. One could extend the front a bit more and use form changes to suggest the lines you want. I'd like to see what the original concept art looked like before the engineers told them it won't work!! :lol:

The original lines on this vehicle are slugish and bland. I think the 2 form changes I made on the door area of the vehicle changed the look to make it sleeker.

Also, can't the bumper be changed without effecting safety?

I think the Dodge Viper worked very well! Beautiful lines on that car!!! I know it's not a redesign but it looks bad ass!
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In this case, the Charger, Challenger, 300C, and Magnum were all based around effectively the same platform. So I wouldn't be surprised if those support beams are all direct carryovers. As with many companies, platforming saves them on development costs, # of parts needed to manufacture, crash testing, etc. So even if you do just shave a little bit off the overhead to do so is surprisingly complex.

I'm not saying I love the existing design, but just pointing out there are a ton of considerations that can monkey up those details, and costs that the bean counters wouldn't approve.

In the case of the Viper, I totally agree. But that car was originally designed in the late 80's when these hippie regulations didn't exist. A lot of these rules are very new which means cars that were designed even a few years ago don't have to take them into consideration.

Case in point - the most recent version of Alias Autostudio actually has a pedestrian impact tool to design where your innocent civilians head should smash so you make sure not to put your hood scoop there. :D

Re: Whay are American Muscle Cars so Blocky???

Postby yo » April 4th, 2011, 10:35 pm

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And they were all designed around the last generation Mercedes Benz E-Class platform! So an old German chassis on a new American muscle car.

I see what you mean J6, I miss read your original post to mean the genre vs other genres of automobile, but now I understand you mean old muscle cars vs new.

Much of it is the new safety standards which add quiet a bit of equipment to the front and rear ends.... and the standards get stricter. Look at the new European pedestrian impact standards which essentially define the front nose profile....

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I would've thought any new crash regulation would guide car form to be 'bigger' and 'blockier'- bumpers and body panels need space to absorb shock.

Muscle cars are meant to look big- big heavy steering (hence you need muscles to drive them- 'muscle car'), performance from "no replacement for displacment" type thinking, rather than from subtler improvments.

I like how high off the ground muscle cars are, and the big open mouth grills- but if technology doesn't require this (i.e. most air flow to cool comes from underneath, a modern V6 is better than an older V8) doesn't a muscle car become a marketing definition more than anything else?

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Scott: The street interpretations of racing technology is always pretty sketchy. Look at wheels or the massive wings on 130hp Civics or mammoth fog lights on Subarus or fake vents on Jaguars.

J6: I think I understand what you are talking about better. Now that I've seen your version of the Challenger, I really want that little chamfer you put along the side near the bottom. That really lightens the body. Gives it a channeled look.

As others have said, your bumpers could probably not work. There just isn't enough left to provide protection. Also, I believe the radiators are mounted low, even in a Challenger, so the front bumper has to extend lower to enclose it.

Sanjy: I like your thinking. I've often wondered what a Challenger or Camaro might be like at 3/4 scale with a V6. Most of the real estate in these cars is wasted space anyways. Surely, one could chop a foot off the length and 6 inches in width and maintain the interior volume. With less weight, the performance could be maintained as well. I think it's just easier to market a big V8 coupe in the US. I know that I have no respect for something like a Mitsubishi Eclipse with it's 3.6L V6. Mind you, that is a FWD girls car...
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