Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby jcharles00 » November 1st, 2012, 1:37 pm

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Nice choice in problem to design for! I had raynauds issues a lot when I was younger. It only pops up a handful of times a year now. I know the best fix for me was to soak my hands in extremely hot water for a couple of minutes. I wonder if that can be replicated in a glove..

Also, interesting talk in regards to trying to fix the problem at the source. It's probably not directly relate-able, but it would be cool if you could use a mechanism like a medical tubing pump (ex: http://www.buch-holm.com/en-GB/Assortme ... Pumps.aspx ) to increase bloodflow externally. Unforunately, the blood vessels near the surface of the skin are return and not send.

anyway, neat idea! I look forward to seeing how you progress with it.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby iab » November 2nd, 2012, 8:27 am


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Gotta love the Sky Mall on long boring flights.

Offered from Hammacher Schlemmer,

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http://www.hammacher.com/Product/Defaul ... &catid=215

"The gloves exert a gentle compression and are lined with a patented material that facilitates blood flow throughout the hands ..."

Now by no means to I endorse this product nor have any proof that their claim is true. But it is certainly worth the $50 to buy a pair and see what's going on with them. They also have other glove products that could fall into your catagory.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby Lmo » November 2nd, 2012, 8:39 am

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Unforunately, the blood vessels near the surface of the skin are return and not send.


Great observation!

I remember my dad teaching me the trick of rinsing the underside of my wrists in cold water to cool off. Wonder if some sort of "back-of-the-hand", open-palm (think hockey/lacrosse glove), slip on heating element might help? Powered by... ?
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Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby iab » November 2nd, 2012, 8:58 am


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Lmo wrote:
Unforunately, the blood vessels near the surface of the skin are return and not send.


Great observation!

I remember my dad teaching me the trick of rinsing the underside of my wrists in cold water to cool off. Wonder if some sort of "back-of-the-hand", open-palm (think hockey/lacrosse glove), slip on heating element might help? Powered by... ?


The direction is irrelevant. DVT compression pumps work by pumping the blood vessels near the surface and well below the surface of the skin. They are not intended to work on arteries. They increase blood flow, in one means, by decreasing back flow. That allows easier work from your arteries and heart and then increasing the blood flow.

Think of it as increasing the diameter of your exhaust pipe. Or adding a pump on your constricted exhaust to remove it quicker.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby nxakt » November 2nd, 2012, 9:03 am

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NASA's work (and others) on spacesuit gloves might be a place to look for inspiration. NASA Tech Briefs is always a good place to look.

http://www.medicaldesignbriefs.com/comp ... icle/14677

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby jcharles00 » November 2nd, 2012, 11:04 am

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iab wrote:The direction is irrelevant. DVT compression pumps work by pumping the blood vessels near the surface and well below the surface of the skin. They are not intended to work on arteries. They increase blood flow, in one means, by decreasing back flow. That allows easier work from your arteries and heart and then increasing the blood flow.


I was talking about a different kind of pump, but the topic of compression is probably a more productive one since you don't necessarily need DVT level compression to achieve it. Perhaps gloves made of a compression fabric (as used for sports recovery by 2XU, etc) would increase the blood flow enough to stop the symptoms.

(I see the Hammacher Schlemmer gloves above.. just need someone to test them. :)

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby iab » November 2nd, 2012, 12:56 pm


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jcharles00 wrote:I was talking about a different kind of pump, but the topic of compression is probably a more productive one since you don't necessarily need DVT level compression to achieve it. Perhaps gloves made of a compression fabric (as used for sports recovery by 2XU, etc) would increase the blood flow enough to stop the symptoms.

(I see the Hammacher Schlemmer gloves above.. just need someone to test them. :)



I understand you were talking about peristalic pumps. A compression pump works in the same manner, positive displacement to move fluid, just on a broader scale instead of working on an individual line like the peristalic.

You are correct that an arm sleeve for a DVT pump is complete over kill. I'd like to see a slim version on the forearm. But I'm not the prtoject manager. ;-)

Image

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby jcharles00 » November 2nd, 2012, 1:14 pm

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that photo reminds me of Randy from A Christmas Story. hehe.

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Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby Robbie_roy » November 8th, 2012, 2:32 am

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@iab - Thanks for the suggestion! I ordered a similar pair to those you posted and they do have an effect. It is not the largest change but I can tell that blood is flowing a little better in my fingertips (I'm using one on a single hand right now in a chilly room and it really does not get in the way too much, at least with typing, and I can feel that the fingertips on the wearing hand are warmer). I'm not sure if they would prevent a Raynaud's attack outright on their own if I was having one, but they are at least an incremental help and the system would not be too hard to add to a direct warmer. Going to try exploring a forearm sleeve like you mentioned--my teacher also suggested a similar idea about integrating clothing with the technology so as to avoid having the solution being a completely separate device. A hand covering/wrist band would also be able to add some circulation and support for the warmer parts like the battery. Some directions to explore ... and I will have to research more into pumping devices that you mention.

@jcharlesoo - It's getting to that time of year for the annual Christmas Story showing :wink:

I've gotten some good findings from speaking with people who have it (not as many as I'd like, unfortunately), but also supplemented by a lot of posts online by people who struggle with Raynaud's in an indoor setting:
http://s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/original_365272_X2HcMgiPhthmM8pDQwzJmRyug.jpg

I've done a little testing on which parts of the hand to warm up, but would like to do more. My classmate suggested that I explore heating the palm and wrist directly, rather than the fingers, but it did not seem to work for me, probably because of the deep location of the arteries vs. returning blood vessels as mentioned.

Below are some of the earlier sketches, I'll be posting some newer ones tomorrow. I can already feel some of these being a little too techie-looking for who I'm aiming at (now if I was trying to help Star Trek's Borg...).

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Some model-making:

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Above: An idea for a folding warmer that can heat the entire length of the hand to fingertip, but folds to be out-of-the-way if needed (could stay folded with snaps, magnets, etc.), while still being able to warm the fingers if you make a fist. The green stuff is thermal silicone, doesn't heat quickly enough to be the heating channel itself, but could work well with imbedded heated elements.


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Ideas for a solid warmer that fits like a ring so that you can retain finger use. This is a foam model, and most people who wore it (myself included) felt that the solid ring part was constricting. Next step is a solid warmer with a flexible ring attachment.

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Variations on the idea


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Wrist and palm attachment
Last edited by Robbie_roy on November 11th, 2012, 1:21 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby iab » November 8th, 2012, 9:31 am


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Do you have access to a university or teaching hospital?

You can actually measure changes in bloodflow with doppler ultrasound. A very expensive piece of equipment run by an expensive tech. I used such a device when working on a DVT pump.

But if you are a student and have access to a teaching hospital, you have excellent odds of having them help you (for free) with your project. When I was in school I was absolutely surprised at the level of support hospitals and healthcare professionals gave me. I saw dozens of surgeries, went on flight for life runs and had access to many other areas as well.

I called on the cardio-lab to get access to the doppler ultrasound, but different hospitals will place it is different departments, ymmv.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby Robbie_roy » November 8th, 2012, 3:26 pm

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That is a great idea .... did you visit the hospital in the later stages of your project (when you had a working prototype to test)? We have Brown University's Alpert Medical School and Hasbro Children's Hospital nearby.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby rkuchinsky » November 8th, 2012, 3:32 pm

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Great sketches and process work!

Have you looked at passive cooling such as Phase Change Materials? I have a sample of a really neat mesh from Schoeller that has some nano particles of some sort of magic wax on it and its cool to the touch. I think it also works in reverse. Will try to dig a link up. The materials are generally called PCMs.

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Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby Robbie_roy » November 8th, 2012, 4:22 pm

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Thanks for the suggestion rkuchinsky! I see just browsing now that they are used in the reheatable gel warmers, and interestingly in the Coffee Joulies:

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Definitely something to look at further

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby iab » November 8th, 2012, 6:02 pm


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Robbie_roy wrote:That is a great idea .... did you visit the hospital in the later stages of your project (when you had a working prototype to test)? We have Brown University's Alpert Medical School and Hasbro Children's Hospital nearby.


I visit the hospital in all stages of any project, I'm going to Loyola next week and a hospital in Texas later the same week, but that discussion is for another thread.

For the doppler ultrasound, we had working prototypes along with competitive pumps. That part of the project was a large PO and difficult to schedule. I needed the most efficient and effective way to gather the necessary data.

Remember, medical devices are more strict with their functionality. If you make a claim, like increased bloodflow, you must prove your claim. That is not only to satisfy the FDA, it is also to satisfy the clinician who will use or recommend the device. Otherwise you will find yourself in the hocus-pocus nonsense claims like the magnets you posted earlier.

Not to say you must have data, then its only a consumer product, and, atmo, a harder sell.

Re: Raynaud's Disease - hand & foot-warmers

Postby rkuchinsky » November 8th, 2012, 6:29 pm

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