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DEGASSING?

Postby BryanBrutherford » February 18th, 2004, 3:19 pm

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I need to buy a degassing system for silicones and epoxy resins
I know all about degassing and how it works

HOWEVER i have no idea wher to go to buy a unit.

I would like something at least 12x12x12 a little larger would be nice, and i would like to be able to see inside from at least one side (maybe an acrylic lid)


Thomas' register doesn't offer too many outlets and the few places i have found seem to be ridiculously overpriced considering the components involved.

Am i going to have to build this system myself?

Can anyone point me in the right direction to by a prefab system at a reasonable price?

Postby Lmo » February 20th, 2004, 3:11 pm

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they ARE ridiculously priced, vacuum systems capable of pulling down to 28 in of Mercury are not cheap. and you'll need that much to pull all the air out of silicones. epoxies you can get by with less.

start looking for vacuum pumps... equipment auctions are a good place to start if you live in a major city. i bought a big (14" dia x 18"tall), aluminum, stew pot at a resturant supply company for my "chamber". the top was fabricated from one inch thick plex... also not cheap. the connecting hose used was flexible gas hose purchased at ace hardware.

you might be able to use an old air compressor for a while... but it won't last long though, they're not really equipped to run in reverse... it sucks the oil out of the crankcase and it eventually get into your material.... not good.

you can do it on the cheap, but you'll have to be creative about it.

Postby BryanBrutherford » February 23rd, 2004, 10:59 am

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That is basically what i was planning to do if unable to find a reasonably priced set-up.

I found an awesome GIANT stainless pot at home depot, but they wouldn't sell it to me because they said it was only for display, to demonstrate the capacity of one of the ovens that they sell.


How and where did you make your vacuum conection to the pot, on the bottom or on the side, and if the side how did you seal it?

Does it need to be welded up, or will a rubber gasket system work?

Postby Lmo » February 23rd, 2004, 1:53 pm

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i made the vacuum connection through the middle of the acrylic top plate using a standard plumbing fitting (tapped using the appropriate tap) that mated with the gasline. you'd think that it would weaken the top substantially (it probably does) but it's held up fine for years, and i typically pull 28 inch of Hg (mercury). i didn't use anything other than teflon plumbing tape.

i cut a smaller diameter of acrylic (to fit the inside dia. of the pot) and bonded it onto the thicker piece to help locate the cover. i made the gasket out of some 1"wide x 3/16" thick sticky-back foam weather stripping.

Postby BryanBrutherford » February 23rd, 2004, 4:48 pm

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thanks

Postby Architorture » March 1st, 2004, 5:43 pm

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Are you looking for vacuum equipment or a pressure pot?

We have been using a camattini vacuum machine produced with Nest Technologies.

http://www.nesttechnologies.com/cam.htm

It is an interesting system. It is specifically designed for casting prototypes. The big benefit of the camattini system is the two chamber injection system. You load a hydrolic piston with a two chamber mixing cartridge, it forces the material into a mixing tip, and you shoot it directly into your mold. You may do all this under vacuum or inject it and then put under vacuum. The vacuum releases all the large air pockets. We then immediately put the mold under pressure into a pressure pot, or regulator.

You can generally find all sizes of pressure pots from a paint surplus source. I have seen more and more pressure pots outfitted with internal heating strips for curring the resin with pressure and heat. I've heard that heat speeds up the curring process and gives you stronger components.

I hope I helped steer you in the right direction.

Postby BryanBrutherford » March 2nd, 2004, 10:26 am

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can you tell me how much the protomix system costs?

that website is horrible, the info link is a questionairre, the distributor list gives no contact info, and the entire site is confusing as hell.

but the product looks like it's what i want

Postby Architorture » March 2nd, 2004, 1:25 pm

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Yeah, sorry about the horrible quality site. I have never found the product anywhere else.

The material cartridges vary in price. A single cartridge of a PC 2000 is $50.00. Each cartridge is 400ml. The price on material seems high, but alot of the price is incorporated into the cartridge system. You may purchase individual blank cartridges for 6 bucks each and fill with whatever material you want. There are 1:1 and 2:1 cartridges.

The best thing to do is to contact the Nest Technologies rep, Michael Tsenter at 818.761.6500. He always makes me feel like I know nothing about RTV molding, so I stroke his ego and get some info out of him, typical Californian.

Good Luck.

One question I have is who has the best prices on raw material? I have been using PolyTek and DJV, but I am always looking for the best deal.

Postby BryanBrutherford » March 2nd, 2004, 3:34 pm

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I don't really care about the raw material, i doubt i will be swayed away from the ones i currently use, what i need is a good quality vacuum chamber.
I am familiar with most rtv stuffs.

I am at a new company building a model shop, and i have completely blown the budget on certain "toys" so where possible i am trying to save money, and most vacuum systems are way overpriced for the components invovled so i was just trying to weigh my options of finding a reasonably priced system versus building my own.

also

I lean towards smooth-on products, I have been using their products for about 4 years now and am very happy with them. Because of my proximity to their allentown plant, most art and sculpture stores and warehouses around me stock almost their entire line so it is the most easily accessible product if i forget to order something

When i need foamed latex or theatrical stuffs i order from MONSTER MAKERS
the guy who runs the co. is awesome.

I just recently ordered some of the silicones and urethanes from freeman manufacturing group but haven't run a batch yet.

I have used polytech and have no complaints but like i said smooth on is definitely the most convenient

so far as the best prices, if you deal with any company long enough and frequently enough they will start to give you much better prices.

i would recomend placing your orders with actual people over the phone (and try for the same person every time) as oppossed to through websites, that way you build a working relationship and can then ask for discounts and possibly get them.

Postby BryanBrutherford » March 2nd, 2004, 4:09 pm

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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


I just got a phone call from your protomix salesman

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAAHAHAHAH


$31,000


AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Postby Architorture » March 3rd, 2004, 9:17 am

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Yeah, sorry about that. I should of known that it was pretty high. We got our machine used.

"It was a great deal, I couldn't pass it up."

We didn't even know what to do with it when my boss rolled in with it. The Camattini system tends to make things more difficult than it needs to be, so there was a lot of trial and error.

Well, I wish you the best of luck. I am not sure that you are going to find anything suitable, that is "cheap"

You might be able to find some do-it-yourself directions on how to build you own vacuum chamber on line.

Postby BryanBrutherford » March 3rd, 2004, 10:41 am

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I am not necessarilly looking for "CHEAP" i just don't see any reason to pay $6,000 for a Stock Pot, a piece of acrylic, some hose and a vacuum pump.


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