Core77

[skinny]

I think it's for a different purpose or end user. For most designers looking for a job, potential employers want to know and see how you think and develop your ideas, so sketching is in order. It's also like that with some clients, they want a story and sketching is good for that. But there are other clients that could care less how you came up with it, they just want to know what your final proposed design is. For example, plenty of design firms websites don't show their development sketches, they just show final products on the market. They're attracting a client that assumes they have some good process to arrive at the nice final product they see, so they trust in that, they don't need to know all of your process, only that you can deliver a good final outcome. There are plenty of old school designers that don't sketch, they're more builders. One of my favorite designers (an old teacher) was like that. Sketching was mostly the last thing you did to finalize the design after he figured out how something actually worked. With him, making models was most important.
Now that's different than if you're just creating concepts or looking to be an employee where selling the story is a big part of it, then it's very important to showcase your sketching. But it may not be that important to the types of clients Hyltom is working for.

[yo]

PackageID: I'm sorry, but I'm not a student any more and I don't think people who are interested by my profile will care much about my sketching skill.

Of course they are interested in seeing your sketching. Sketching is a visual documentation of process and what influence you had on a project.

Sketching skill is surely important, it help you to communicate idea, concept in no time but I'm not agree to judge someone creativity, sensibility, feeling...on his sketch ability. Designing is more than sketching.

Of course design is MORE than sketching... but sketching is a part. I would never pull someone in for an interview without seeing it.

I don't totally remember your old site, but I don't remember it being so flash heavy? This one is a little busy for me, takes away from the product design a little too much for my personal taste.

[hyltom]

Of course they are interested in seeing your sketching. Sketching is a visual documentation of process and what influence you had on a project

.

I think you have to define me who are "they"... students, designers who are just interesting to see my sketching skill. I'm more looking at showing to potential clients, finalized products that have successfully rich the shelves. For them it's the most reliable characteristic of a good designer. None of the customer with who i have worked and I'm working has never asking me about my sketches. This is a personal process and they are not interested to see it. I'm not dealing with designer but with marketing manager, products manager, projects manager... and they only care about the final design proposals. They need me to be efficient, fast and creative. Most of the time a project take few days, not weeks and they need to visualize how their products will look like in the shop. So my sketch process take few hours, just the time for me to understand the product, find relevant solution to their requests. After that I make my choices and work in 3D to build their future product.
Now, as ADD suggest it, maybe the purpose of the website is not enough clear so I will try to bring some changes and express myself more clearly.

Thanks Skinny for your understanding and explanation, this is exactly what I'm trying to achieve trough this website.

To all readers of this forum, that are mostly designers or future designers, i understand that you are curious and would like to see the whole creative process, but my website ,at first thought, has not been build for that purpose. Anyway i still need feedback to improve it. Also base on what have been said, i will try to show maybe for some projects, the different design step...from sketch to production.

[PackageID]

I think you have to define me who are "they"... students, designers who are just interesting to see my sketching skill

I think you may have under estimated who reads this forum. This forum is read buy everyone from students, senior designers like myself, directors of design like Yo, freelancers, Marketers, entrepreneur, and anyone else that is interested in design. This is much more than a boys club that sits around discussing the next iPhone.

I'm more looking at showing to potential clients, finalized products that have successfully rich the shelves. For them it's the most reliable characteristic of a good designer.

We all want to show clients products that rich the shelves and influence peoples live, but a finalized product is not what shows a good designer. What shows a good designer is a good finalized product that has a process and research to back it up. Like I mentioned before, producing what pops in you head when you get a brief and producing a pretty product does not solve a problem. That is what ID is solving well thought out problems.

This is a personal process and they are not interested to see it. I'm not dealing with designer but with marketing manager, products manager, projects manager... and they only care about the final design proposals.

Like most of us on this blog I work for a large corporate company and do freelance work for multiple different firms but our marketing managers will not trust your designs without seeing how you got there. They respond much better to sketches then final renderings and models. They are not naive and the process backs up your designs and shows that you truly know what the proper solution is. Like I mentioned in my last post your solutions look solid but if you have the skills for the process, why not show them. That point alone makes no sense to me. Even design firms show their process, so why wouldn’t you.

They need me to be efficient, fast and creative. Most of the time a project takes few days, not weeks and they need to visualize how their products will look like in the shop. So my sketch process take few hours, just the time for me to understand the product, find relevant solution to their requests. After that I make my choices and work in 3D to build their future product.

I don't really know how to respond to this. Is this only sketching or is it the whole up front exploratory process, meaning research, mood boards, observation, etc.....If you are only spending a few hours on all of this than I do not see how you come to the best solution. We need to understand the problem and explore the problem before solving the problem. This can not be done in just a few hours and exploring it in 3D does not work. We have had this argument before.

To all readers of this forum, that are mostly designers or future designers, I understand that you are curious and would like to see the whole creative process, but my website ,at first thought, has not been build for that purpose.

I will point this back to my first comment.

I guess what I am really trying to point out here is that I can tell by your designs have had some thought and exploration behind them. If that is the case and all the early posts about your exploratory work are true, then why not show how your work. There is nothing to loose, if anything there much to gain. Showing your process shows how you think and how you think show how great of a designer you are. Do a search on different design firms and you will notice that all of them show how they work and what their process is, even the ones in China.

[Sketchme]

I like the work, the website is a bit to flashy for my personal taste, Im of the opnion the flash bug as gone now and just seems a bit to try hard. To add to the whole sketching in or out discussion. I didn't see them last time around but if they are as good as the earlier replies imply then pop em up. Even big name consultancies like PDD, Van Berlo, Kiska, Astro, Seymour Powell to name a few have sketches on their sites, you could argue that this is for prosepective students but I think its more to do with showing of the studios capabilities (they also show how they gather and translate insights etc...) Even if you pop up just one sketch it reveals more about you. As they say if you've got it flaunt it!

[yo]

[quote="yo"
I think you have to define me who are "they"...

they = design savvy clients.

[hyltom]

I have understood your point Yo, PackageID, Sketchme...but why does people that comment portfolio, website always focus on the sketches. Is there only this stage? Why not mention about market research, tendency board, brain storming, design refinement, technical issues ... I mean there is so much aspect taken into account in design process, why only focus on the sketching aspect. Being a good and prolific sketcher doesn't necessary mean you are a good designer...this doesn't means also that because you don't know how to sketch you are a good designer. I mean let creative people express themselves the way they want as soon as there is result.

[Travisimo]

The reason is that clients don't want to give their product design work over to someone and be delivered something that is not exactly what they want.

"market research, tendency board, brain storming, design refinement, technical issues..."

...are all important, but are also somewhat time consuming. If you can show you can quickly sketch concepts, and a client can see how they would work with you, rapidly refine the design into something they want. The key part is "rapid," and without their need for them to invest the time/money in CAD models of each iteration - and then deal with the time consuming changes that can inevitably happen.

There are people that might hire you with a site like you have now, but I don't think you will be competitive with someone that has the same skills as you AND shows they can rapidly visualize.

[Sketchme]

A massive sweeping statement but here goes : Sketching is generally commented on in portfolios because it is lacking in most. Student folios in particular are crammed with CAD. We as designers have a stigma to non designer types as people who have an inherent ability to illustrate. I've worked with a few designers who are for lack of a better word crap and sketching now this doesn't make them bad designers, they are actually pretty good but I've seen it first hand with new prospective clients around the table and their enthusiasm and confidence drain as the designer is unable to communicate his thoughts on paper to a level the client can understand.

Sketching is simply part of a process that is visually exciting, likewise model making, design iterations etc. I personally think that R has probably the best blend of showing off in his portfolio his studio's capablities. Covers the marketing side of stuff, has a few sketches nice beauty shots etc all in a visually compelling manner.

The focus on sketching in this thread was not to drag over the sketching debate but rather to ask why remove your sketches which are apprently pretty good. If your advertising your wares to prospective clients chuck the whole lot up there, snapshots of your process rather than just a collection of nice images.

[skinny]

The focus on sketching in this thread was not to drag over the sketching debate but rather to ask why remove your sketches which are apprently pretty good. If your advertising your wares to prospective clients chuck the whole lot up there, snapshots of your process rather than just a collection of nice images.

I'd have to agree with this here. I think I understand what your focus is on the site and some clients might not care about seeing the process. But there are some that do, so including all of that process can open the door to getting even more clients (assuming that's something you want $$$) by showing the versatility. I once got a project from something that I wasn't going to show in my portfolio but decided to leave it in last minute since the book was kind of thin back then. Turns out, that's exactly what landed me the project.
So I'd understand wanting to keep the look and focus of the site as is, but maybe incorporate some of the process work as a secondary level of information. It may not stand out as much as your current primary level (renderings) but have them available if someone wants to see them.