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Re: Deleted my post?

Postby chevis » April 16th, 2015, 7:59 am


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I would have to say that you method for moderating via 3 "dislikes" and the post is removed is a lazy way to moderate a forum that is suppose to encourage respectful challenge and discussion. if you are going to take this approach then simply become a site that post articles without the ability for the viewers to make comments. What you are doing is no different then company's that remove bad reviews about their products from their website.

Allowing the system to moderate via a pre-set of dislikes is basically giving up complete control and handing it over individuals who are not looking at the post from a unbiased point of view. I.E I have the honor of writing a post for Core77 someone challenges it, i have three friend "unlike" the post and it is removed. Now if Core wants to ensure that everyone who writes a article for them is "protected" from anyone contradicting them or challenging their opinion then that is even worst - true or not that will be a perception that is created. It is no different then a designer who puts their work on the wall for a critique and gets upset when someone respectfully challenges their design or the logic behind it. (something i am seeing more and more of). To be completely honest i have almost stopped reading all of the articles that Core has posted as i have found many of them to be shallow, lacking depth, one sided, and riddled with information that cosmetic and without foundation.

I know that IAB can be unrefined at times in his articulation and a little more aggressively direct then even i can be, but the post that was deleted was respectfully written and simply challenged the mind set of the article and some statements that if you had 50 designers in a room you would have support for both IABs comments and the author of the article.

I am not sure what has been happening behind the scenes at Core but obviously something has -

1. new conform with everyone else site design look and feel
2. poor technical execution of the site and the architecture behind it (it has taken me 4 weeks to get my login fixed and it still wont work i finally just created a new account)
3. a steady decline in truly deep and meaning full content

A few other points but to be honest it feels as if core either got bough or people decided that they wanted it to grow so lets wash it down to please the masses and increase traffic that way..... you are quick becoming vanilla.....

Chevis Watkinson

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby NURB » April 16th, 2015, 9:13 am

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Well put, Chevis. I think you're right on all accounts.

Shaggy-
I'd volunteer to moderate the main site, too, I just don't know how much time I could devote to it. I do appreciate you (and the other Core "insiders") responding to the call for changes. That speaks more to your devotion to the regulars around here. However, you have to be very careful you aren't losing the Core of the site. I've had numerous friends approach me to ask what happened to the site, and that's concerning...
Chris Haar

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Those who define design as knowing how to use Illustrator will be condemned to using Illustrator their entire career. - @monteiro

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby rkuchinsky » April 16th, 2015, 11:06 am

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I can't speak for comments on the main site as have never commented. I can hardly speak for articles as I previousky found them far too much about random art, not design, though I browsed the site almost daily. Since the new UI have never been to the front page more than once to quickly leave as I dont know what I'm looking at and don't click on link bait.

Fundamentally I wonder why the front page has got so far from the core boards content and user base? Are we just all totally different types of consumers? I would think there is still a need for real content. Core77 boards I recommend to everyone I know and teach as a "must read". Core front page I couldn't even tell you what it's about or why to go.

Is it a question of monetization driving mainstream content and interaction?
R
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Re: Deleted my post?

Postby oneonine » April 16th, 2015, 11:39 am

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I think reducing the opaqueness of the current system as described would eliminate the issue raised in this thread, I also think a flag as spam versus approval by moderator system for comments would be better as the current method is a bit Orwellian. It might save work too, hard to say in the spam wars.

Edit: didn't see the second page of comments. I won't blanket dismiss the content on the front page as I often find interesting posts, however I will add I am not a fan of the new layout. The old design was aged but efficient in presenting information quickly and chronologically- The new design requires more time and attention to see what is new and separating content from advertisement. Maybe this provides more fiscal opportunity for Core, but the site has definitely fallen off my regular "surfing" (makes me sound ancient) rounds on a break between work.

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby yo » April 16th, 2015, 11:57 am

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oneonine wrote:my regular "surfing" (makes me sound ancient) rounds on a break between work.

at least you didn't say "web portal" :-)

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby Stucon » April 16th, 2015, 1:50 pm


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Hi - I just want to clarify a few things here. Shaggy stated:

Currently if a comment gets 3 downvotes it gets removed


This is not accurate. If a comment receives multiple downvotes it is "flagged for moderation". When this happens the comment is removed from the stream, and is put into the moderation queue for review. Same thing happens if you click "report as spam".

We then review the flagged comments on a somewhat regular basis, and either approve or deny them. The truth is that this task has not been clearly assigned to anyone specifically, so has been getting done by multiple people without a clearly written guideline as to what is acceptable and what is not. It seems that the original comment in question probably should have been approved, but instead was denied for no clear reason. My apologies! I'm investigating to see if this can be undone.

So definitely more of a bandwidth issue than a censorship/Stalinist issue. That said, we have been known to be overzealous with removing posts, comments, threads, etc. in the past. We definitely err on the side of Libertians rather than content watchdogs.

Regarding the other comments here, when the new design came on line the presentation of the tiles definitely did not provide enough context for each post, leading to the perception of link bait. We've since added a subtitle, the first 50 words of body copy, the publish date and the publishing channel to each tile, along with the title and lead image. We had hoped this was enough information to help you decide whether to click through to the article, but this clearly does not seem to be the case.

We've discussed further adjustments to the presentation of the posts on the home page, and there will be ongoing changes over the next several months. People seem to have a hard time following the chronology of posts, so that is one thing we'll work on.

Finally, specific editorial suggestions are always welcome. It is hard to work with requests for 'real' or 'deep and meaningful' content without knowing what is meant by those labels.

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby rkuchinsky » April 17th, 2015, 2:18 pm

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I'd just like to make quick retraction in light of my previous post coming after perhaps too many beers :)

While I haven't visited the core main page too often recently I do see the quick changed being made in the UI and editorial side and certainly after a closer look no longer see the format as click bait as I first thought. I'd like to dig deeper but want to give the core team props on what I can imagine was both a technical and philosophical challenge. I'll have too see if the content format lined up with my expectations further.

All that being said, up/down voting content may not be the best of form.

Though, all THAT being said, if someone commenting is an ass, or non-constructive, I couldn't care if they had 109 years experience. Respect is earned, not bought with time.

R
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http://www.directivecollective.com

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby Mrog » April 17th, 2015, 4:33 pm


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A while ago I posted on some Article as well and half a day later my comment was gone.
I was simply opposing the idea of the article without being rude or unreasonable. I concluded a butthurt author is deleting stuff that doesn't match his/her point of view.

I decided to never post something on the core site again. Waste of my time.


I also think the quality of the articles in general could be a lot better. The topics are usually not bad. They sometimes seem a little bit too much like a mashup of theVerge and designboom content with a little too much emphasis on craftsmanship. What I miss is a little more focus on INDUSTRIAL design.
I think the biggest problem with this focus right now is, that it is just not very interesting. Usually it's a video or some dude making some mad workshops stuff... but there is never really a STATEMENT made. I miss that an author is actually trying to make a point about something. There are whole libraries filled with books on industrial design and design theory. There are conferences where people argue about design, what it can do and what it can't do. There is a lot to say about design. And all what core77, probably one of the only real sites that are (supposedly) focused on industrial design, usually does is something like: "Check out this sick video"

And THIS in combination with the crippled, totalitarian comment system is, in my opinion, breaking core77's mainpage's neck.

A lot of famous, successful sites like theverge.com are interesting because of the comments. They upload an opinion piece and people start to discuss it. Sometimes I don't even read the article, I skim it and jump to the comment section. Cause the article is only one guy's opinion. What I am interested in are the opinions of a lot of people and their INTERACTION and DISCUSSIONS with each other. That's what people come back for.
On a good day an article on core maybe gets two comments?... usually void of anything meaningful (maybe all the others got deleted? ;) )
The boards prove that it doesn't have to be like that... quality and quantity-wise

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby rkuchinsky » April 18th, 2015, 2:20 am

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^ good point about comments often being more interesting than the article. I'm the same way with many site I follow-reading comments more than source. A good example is boingboing where an average article gets 80 comments (though they switched the commentung thete to a separate site and it kind of killed it).

I'd love more ID focused articles with the range and depth of comments we have here on the forums.
R
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Re: Deleted my post?

Postby iab » April 21st, 2015, 4:09 pm


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Stucon wrote: My apologies!


Buried and easy to miss.

But accepted.

Being a designer boils down to generating ideas and having those ideas evaluated by others. Deleting ideas is a complete affront to design. There can never be evaluation in a meaningful way. I can't imagine why any design site would so easily go against the core values of the profession.

I might add,which was my point in my deleted comment, design is not the sole arbiter of generating ideas. While the author may feel the same way, I will never know because of your "policy".

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby iab » April 21st, 2015, 4:10 pm


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rkuchinsky wrote:Though, all THAT being said, if someone commenting is an ass, or non-constructive, I couldn't care if they had 109 years experience. Respect is earned, not bought with time.


The same goes for passive/aggressive comments.

Useless dreck.

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby yo » April 22nd, 2015, 12:34 pm

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c'mon now iab. I didn't read R's comment as directed to you, just a truthful statement.

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby chevis » April 23rd, 2015, 1:15 pm


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I read R's comment as a direct attack on my character and Sir, we shall meet on the field of honor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqCQuiq6eOo

;)

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby iab » April 24th, 2015, 1:29 pm


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yo wrote:c'mon now iab. I didn't read R's comment as directed to you, just a truthful statement.


Could be.

On the other hand, with historical conversations as an indicator, it might not be.

My apologies for the former. My pleasure for the latter.



So have the powers that be done anything?

Re: Deleted my post?

Postby powaz » May 4th, 2015, 9:04 am

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I say one downvote gets a removal. There is no room for negativity on the internetz. :roll:

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